Ancient Coins

Okay, I finally bit the bullet and bought 20 uncleaned ancient coins for $1.35 each. I have been wanting to look into this side of numismatics and I found a dealer with 100% feedback on eBay. Worst case scenario is I'm out $27. My question now is this: since I broke the rule and didn't get the book before the coins, does anyone here have recommendations for which book is best for identifying and where I can find instructions for the proper cleaning of these coins when I receive them? Any input would be welcome. Thanks.

 

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Thanks GDJMSP. I think this is going to be a lot of fun and it's something that my kids can help me with. Hopefully, all will go well

 

Here are a few references I've found:

http://www.enchanted-treasures.com/cleaning/CleaningPage.htm

http://www.aeratvs.com/cleaning_romans.htm

http://www.romancoins.net/cleaning.htm

 

Generally, you can expect that your coins will be about the size of a US Dime to US Nickel. They will come from the late 200s to mid 300s AD. You will find a lot of Constantines. Constantine and his sons and nephews all look very much alike and have similar names (Constans, Constantius, Constantinus, etc.) The popular types will be Sol Invictus and VOTA XX. Sol Invictus shows the sun god standing with a whip. Vota means "choice" (vote) and refers to the emperor being chosen by the Senate. The XX or whatever is the Roman numeral for the year of rule.

You can find a lot of these on Wildwinds, as noted. You need to know a bit about Roman history. If you want a book, the ones by DAVID N. SEAR are the best and a larger library -- say a state university -- might have them. Your local librarian can help you find them and can borrow them for you via InterLibrary Loan (ILL).

Be aware that a recent warning in THE CELATOR published the existence of modern fakes being salted into these bulk lots. It is not likely, but it does happen.

If you like being in touch with Rome at a low point, you will probably get more out of Rome at a high point, the Pax Romana from 14 BC to 180 AD, the time from Augustus Caesar to Marcus Aurelius. You can find a nice silver denarius for the $50 range. Many people seem satisfied with the VCOINS ring of sellers. Many of them advertise directly in The Celator, which VCoins does collectively, also.

For books on Rome, generally, the histories by MICHAEL GRANT are at your library and are very readable.

Michael
ANA R-162953

 

Thanks Ziggy and mmarotta. I already have some interest in Roman history which is one of the reasons I finally decided to do this. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to provide this information for me. I am really looking forward to getting started. I'll be contacting the ANA library probably on Monday or Tuesday for loans.
Thanks again guys!

 

how big% of a silver coins among them?
and how dealers get THAT amounts of old coins?
metaldetecting? hard to believe, i am one

 

I haven't received the coins yet, so I don't know the percentage. The seller lives in Jerusalem and says that she gets the coins from the local villagers as they find them. She also says that the villagers mix in a lot of junk to make the load heavier, but that she culls all of the junk. I'm not expecting anything worth a fortune, but I think there might be some nice surprises. She has said there shouldn't be any broken or damaged coins (that I'll believe when I see it.) All in all, she seems like a decent seller.

 

Did you get the ancients yet?

There are many ways for these things to surface. For one thing, political competition in the Palestine region often has taken the form of settlements. So, a lot of building is going on. The heavy equipment digs a hole and kids sift the sands. I once had a necklace strung with "ancient beads" that included a mouse vertebra.

Michael

 

No I don't have them yet. I got an email from the seller saying she sent them on 9/1/04 and then I got a notice of shipment on 9/8/04. I think they're on their way. The notice on the 1st was directly from the seller. The notice on the 8th was a form letter. I wish they'd get here. I'm really looking forward to going through them.
Do you still have the necklace. That sounds way cool.

 

My coins finally came today! Some of them look like they could be very interesting. One almost looks like it has an Indian on one side. Many of them are very small but there are a couple about the size of a nickel and a couple about the size of a dime. They're all sitting in olive oil right now and I guess that's where they're going to be on and off for the next 3 weeks or so? As I understand it, at the end of the first week, I need to gently remove whatever will come off and then put them in fresh oil for another week and continue this process until all of the grime is off. If that isn't right, someone please tell me. I don't want to ruin these - they're too cool.

Also, these coins are supposed to be Roman, Greek, and Persian. I guess I couldn't be lucky enough to have one good book cover all of these, could I? If there is one, please let me know so I can buy it. Thanks.

 

Good luck. I hope they come out looking great.
I don't have any experience in this area, so I can't offer any informed advice.
I have heard others say that olive oil can take months to do much good, but that's not something I can confirm.
Just be careful with them, and most of all, enjoy.

 

If you are going to spend enough money on ancients teht it would concern you if you bought a fake, you may wnat to look at this group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/

The entertainment value derived from reading posts by some of the "eccentrics" there is worth the time spent, even if you don't collect ancients.

 

I read some of the posts, and they are an interesting bunch over there, aren't they? I bookmarked the site so that I could go back and read more at my liesure (which I don't get much of). I think it's amazing how different the people are from forum to forum. I'm so glad I found CoinTalk. This is by far the most enjoyable forum I have looked at and the more I look at others, the more I appreciate this one.

 

If indeed you are a member of, and have been following the posts on CFDL then you will know only too well that those so called ''eccentrics'' have exposed a tremendous number of fakes that have been filtering into the market via unscrupulous ebay sellers (and via other less suspect sources), saving collectors untold '000's of dollars of good hard earned cash.

Everyone is to a larger or smaller extent an `eccentric' in someone else's eyes. For example non coin collectors would probably consider anyone and everyone posting here as being `eccentric' (some of which might make good entertainment value for them).

IMHO those `eccentrics' on CFDL are no more eccentric than you are. Some take their interests onto a different plateau than the average collector, but they do take the time to pass on the benefits of their insights, deductions and studies to the rest of us. The active members of that list should (IMHO) be given far more kudos and respect for what they have actually done in making the hobby a safer one to be part of. Just my opinion as I say.

I do agree with you however that people who are seriously interested in collecting ancients should do themselves a favour and get acquaint ed with what is actually `out there' waiting to trip up the unwary. CFDL and its archives of posts and images is as good a place to start as any. There are a number of extremely knowledgeable members of that list (including museum curators, dealers, authors, long time collectors as well as `newbies') and as such it is a veritable goldmine of relevant information......and `opinion' (some of which can on occasion be quite humorous in nature).

Ian
(Quirky by nature - Eccentric by design)

 

Ian,
I got the impression from JoeCoin, that "eccentric" or not that forum was a great source of information. And he was the first to say that it was a good place to start to learn about fakes/counterfeits. That is the vein that I took his remarks in. Yes, I did get the impression that many on that forum are "eccentric" but that is not necessarily a negative word. You are right, in our own way, we are all eccentric. Most of the posters on this board "march to a different drummer" which makes everyone here eccentric. It is interesting how different types of eccentrics can be found on different forums. Although it sounds negative, I do not feel it is negative. It makes the forums interesting in addition to being informative.

 

I won't disagree that Joecoin mentioned the CFDL as a `positive' on the one hand.

It's just that the bona fide eccentric in me just took a little exception to pointing someone there (if for no other reason) for the entertainment value to be had at the expense of the `eccentrics'. CFDL doesn't need or want its ranks swollen by people seeking merely to be `entertained'. To me the list is too valuable a resource to be daubed with tar by that particular stick.

Ian
(Practicing Eccentric - With Quirks)

 

From what I read, there is no question in my mind that that forum is a wealth of information. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't have bookmarked it. I do not have time to waste for "entertainment" purposes only. I am actually very grateful that the site was pointed out to me and I plan to do quite a bit of reading there. If I think I can hold my own there, I may join. Also, please understand that I am an eccentric myself who doesn't work and play well with others. Oftentimes, things I say can easily be misconstrued and taken in the worst possible light even when I don't intend them that way. So, in case there was any doubt, please believe me when I say that no insult to the members of that forum was intended in any way, shape, or form.

 

I thought I had responded to your last comment but it seems my `response' disappeared somewhere into the ether...or I pressed cancel instead of `send'.

My initial response was to `Joecoin' (hence my quoting his words in that response). I posted with a view to commenting on a particular perception he expressed concerning `entertainment value' and seeking to correct it. That having been done, there was little more needed saying.

You have to bear in mind that people other than ourselves will no doubt read this thread at some point. So while we need not be concerned about the perceptions you may have concerning CFDL, it is important (at least to me) that the CFDL is not generally seen or promoted as being a bunch of whacko's who beside discussing forgeries, can occasionally provide some `entertainment value' for onlookers. The counterfeiting of ancients appears to be very much on the increase and many people (the ones with vested interests in promoting them) would like nothing better than for CFDL to disappear. A few of the more active list members have in the past been the subject of personal attack in the form of harassment and ridicule as a direct consequence of their success in exposing forgeries and sellers. In that context I hope you have a better understanding of why I posted my comments. N'uff said?

Ian

 

I am sorry, but I consider that list to be a complete waste of time. People with no certifiable credentials condemn coins from reputable dealers who helped BUILD this hobby -- and they do so on the basis of a SCAN.

The truth is that based on my chat and gossip at the Pittsburgh ANA convention, the dealers in ancients who are ANA members consider CFDL to be a mockery, if not an affrontery.

Yes, some participants do alert other readers to fake coins in electronic auctions. It is my opinion that such benefits do not outweigh the greater harm that this group has done to itself and the hobby at large.

Michael
ANA R-162953