ANCIENT COIN Please help to ID.

This belongs to my daughter's boyfriend's family.

HELP!

Is it real?
ID Please?

Grade?
Value?

Thanks a bunch.


:thumb:

 

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It is a Greek coin, a drachm or tetradrachm from Alexander the Great.

It does, however, not look real.
What is the weight?

If real, I would grade it F/VF

 

I agree with what he said. This doesn't look right at all.

 

It is 17 grams.

Heavy, larger than a quarter, smaller than a breadbox (J/K).
Small than a $1/2.

 

Alexander the Great Tetradrachm...grade would be aVF

I'm calling it a fake though, uneven reverse wear and the portrait style on the obverse doesn't look right. Though, I should note, there were many obverse portrait styles.


stainless

 

I suspect air pockets also, mainly on the reverse.


stainless

 

okay, so, is everyone agreed?

I will wait a bit before I tell her.

 

Gosh I think there where over 50 coins with Alexander's Hercules portrait on it during his reign. I think careful study, weigh the coin, take the dimensions and simple magnet. Reverse Zues with Eagle. If real its a real nice Alexander. Traci

 

okay, should I waste the $ to send it in?

If real, what is it worth?

 

If you mean send it in to NGC or ICG, don't.

NGC offers no guarantee that the ancients they slab are authentic. ICG has slabed fakes before.

Honestly, your best bet would be to go to a dealer of ancients and ask for his opinion. None of us have the coin in hand, so all we can say is it doesn't look right.

If real though, I'd say $300+.


stainless

 

I've found this site which shows pictures and describes the weight of known fakes of Alexander tetradracms.

http://rg.ancients.info/alexander/modern_forgeries.html

I think I see some style and surface quality differences between the coin Treashunt has posted and those pictured as known fakes. The fakes weigh between 15.5 and 17 grams.

Hope this helps

 

I know this coin type but there are SO MANY variations on this theme and so many styles...there are lifetime issues and postumus. These coin were minted looong after his death so generations of minters and a wide variety of styles and devises are used. I dont know it well enough to judge the authenticity. I dont like posting other forums but this forum might be of better help as there are people who specialize in this type:

www.forumancientcoins.com (go to the forum)

I can tell you its supposed to be a Mecedonian coin of Alexander III, Herakles in lion skin / Zeus seated reverse holding an eagle and scepter. Messembria Mint?

Also you can join the discussion list CFDL 'Coin Forgery Discussion List', They are never shy with an opinion.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/summary

 

My problem with this coin is a bit different. The vast majority if not all genuine Alexander silver coins bear some sort of mint mark, control mark or minor device in the reverse field or under the chair. I have one with no device and slightly barbarous style which I believe is ancient but not official. The weight of this added to the strangeness of style (strange in a different way than the hundreds of genuine variations I've seen which can be strange themselves) makes me think the coin may be ancient but an ancient of barbarous origin. Were it a modern fake copied from an original, I'd expect the faker would have copied the minor device.

If the coin is ancient but unofficial, its value is not all that different from a genuine coin of the same grade ($200?). I believe the correct action is to show it in person to a dealer at a major show (Baltimore, Chicago, NYC etc.) who has at least a dozen of the coins in stock (avoid experts who have seen fewer coins than you have). From the photo, I'd not accept the coin as genuine but I'd not throw it out either. Is it worth the price of a certificate? Your call. The certificate worth having is by David Sear ($40-50) http://www.davidrsear.com/certification.html

 

Thanks, all.

I guess the concensus is that it is not authentic?

With all of the opinions here, and questions, how can yuoguys collect these?

If no one can say except that there are about a billion varieties, how can you be sure of anything?

 

Well I think part of the problem is that none of us here specialize in tetradrachms of this era. They're pretty expensive, and tetradrachms of Alexander are some of the most commonly counterfeited, so it's not the most accessible area of collecting. Considering that Drusus and Doug Smith, both of whome know far more about this stuff than me, aren't convinced that it's a modern fake is probably a good sign for the coin, though obviously nothing that can easily be confirmed. You might want to try renaming the thread you have at Forvm about this to specify what sort of coin you are having trouble with, since those who know about tetradrachms of Alexander might have skipped over your thread, not knowing what was inside.

 

Two points:
These are not much harder to authenticate than US coins but it helps a lot to have the coin in hand rather than working from a photo. 90% of fakes are easy to spot but there are diagnostic features of fakes that make us doubt a number of perfectly genuine coins. This is especially true of coins that have been cleaned poorly. PCGS does not extend certificates to coins submitted by photo. They won't even service a coin that has any one of a dozen situations that almost all ancient coins have.

'Authentic' is a difficult term with ancients. Because there it so many variations, it is quite possible to see a coin that is different in style rom those in our experience but not immediately obvious whether the coin is a result of striking oddity, a different engraver at the main mint, product of a branch mint not familiar to us, product of an ancient authority producing coins for local use, ancient counterfeit or, finally, a modern fake. Collectors do not want modern fakes. Many collectors avoid ancient counterfeits and local use items (partly because they are more difficult to separate into appropriate groups).

Collecting ancients is not a matter of filling empty holes in an album. Like modern coins, it is possible to collect ancients on several levels. Beginners probably should avoid coins with too many questions or footnotes unless they are willing to pay David Sear or another 'expert' for an opinion and be willing to accept the possibility that the expert will be wrong a small fraction of the time (just like when people crack open slabs they believe are 01 lower than their coin deserves).

Why do we collect them? Because they are not boring. Relatively fewer ancients collectors are in it for investment and the opportunities for study are immense. Being 'sure' is not as important if you consider $10 spent on a fake to be an educational expense rather than a world ender. Why do US collectors pay 80 times as much for a Lincoln cent with an S under the date than one without? Why do they pay hundreds more for a coin which exists with only a hundred known to be nicer rather than a similar item with a thousand nicer? Because that is the hobby each of us has chosen.

 

doug:
Thank you for the comments.
Still, it seems rather scary to me that there is such disagreement over the validity of so many coins.

Thanks again,
Frank

 

I'm not at all convinced that this coin is fake. It appears most people are wary of it because its a higher-value coin. There are a decent number of mints that struck types without any marks, and plenty of unofficial mints too. I don't have a copy of Price to check, unfortunately, and I'm not familiar enough with the mint styles to say which one it came from.

 

This is not my area of speciality and I do not own Price but I would really love to see a non barbarous Alexander tetradrachm with no mintmark letters or symbols. Can you provide a link to an online photo of one? The coin here under discussion is hardly barbarous looking but my experience with unmarked coins have been wilder in style. If anything this one is distinctive for the very straight lines of the legends; much straighter and finer than many of the major mints.

 

I am not wary of it because of the value, I just wouldnt comment because this coin type is so numerous and spans such a long time with such a wild variety of different variations and styles...not to mention the fakes that are just as numerous, that it takes a person more versed in the type than I am to help you. I am usually able to spot a glaring fake but this coin isnt glaring to me...and if it is...it just shows how little I know. the best I can do is what I offered which is a general ID of what it is supposed to be. I am a bit suprised not a single person commented on the coin at forum.

You might want to join the CFDL (Coin Forgery Discussion List)
and post it there. Those guys are never shy about giving an opinion and to be honest...although I sometimes think they are over paranoid...they have discovered countless fakes on sale at major auction houses, ebay, etc...If nothing else...If it is a known fake...THEY will probably know...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/