Ancient Chinese Coins & History

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ken Dorney, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    While I sold off most of my collection of ancient Chinese coins over a decade ago, I did keep under 100 or so of them. I have many favorites, some incredibly rare or unique and some common (and some in between). But I still love them all. Below is one of them.

    Following the fall of the Eastern Jin Dynasty began a tumultuous period now known as the Southern Dynasties. The Liu Song Dynasty was the first in this period and is remarkable for its ‘colorful’ characters, despots and revolts. Spanning just under 60 years it saw six emperors, most of which reigned for only a couple of years. Emperor Xiaowu, previously known as Liu Jun, was just one of these individuals.

    Xiaowu came to power after his older brother Liu Shao assassinated their father, Emperor Wen. Although he had deflected blame for the death of his father to another, be was despised and untrusted and a power struggle immediately ensued where Xiaowu was victorious.

    Controversy was immediate in Xiaowu’s reign. He had engaged in incestuous relationships with his uncles daughters. Enraged, his uncle fomented a rebellion in the provinces, a tenuous one which failed. Various factors contributed to the failure, and one was a general who was so often drunk that he met his demise in battle when he fell off his horse and was killed in a stupor.

    The history of this period is complex, with many characters and family members involved, most of which seem to have been engaged in either active or passive rebellion in one form or another. At some point it became public knowledge that Xiaowu was in yet another incestuous relationship with his very own mother and public opinion began to take its toll and erode his support. After one rebellious battle the emperor had the majority of the population of one supporting city executed, reportedly in a cruel and inhumane manner.

    Xiaowu was a famous drunk and was rarely seen sober. His drinking prowess however is reported to be one of the reasons for his endurance. He was often seen passed out, but when roused was always able to recover quickly and seemingly without ill effect. He was greatly feared and although his reign was known for rebellion and discontent he died passively.

    Liu Song Dynasty, Emperor Xiaowu, 454 – 464 AD
    Æ 4 Zhu, 19mm, .98 grams

    Obverse: Xiao Jian.
    Reverse: Si Zhu.

    References:
    Hartill 13.4-6

    13-4.jpg
     
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  3. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Interesting read, thanks for the history lesson.

    Haha what a bro :D
     
  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, what a great story! From business dealings there, I have seen many a drunken Factory Owner when they would entertain! And, incestuous relations with his Uncle's Daughters... real meaning of Kissin' Cuzins! :)

    I regret that I have no Zhu from this Dynasty... very cool coin though!

    Here is one from a little before that time (and I like the Sichuan Province and their cuisine!):

    China Han Xing Kngdm 303-347 CE Li Shou Sichuan First Reign Title H 12.7b.jpg
    China Han Xing Kngdm 303-347 CE Li Shou Sichuan First Reign Title H 12.7b
     
  5. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    yeah, those Chinese coins (and History) are kool and a whole study themselves..seems like i have a few wide centers like that somewhere in my fray..this is the 1st thing i pull up when i hit the Chinese button.. pipes chinese stamp roman coins 004.JPG pipes chinese stamp roman coins 005.JPG Chinese calligraphy piece
     
  6. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Since I lack any relevant coins to show, here are 2 so-called "Han Dynasty" bronze crossbow trigger mechanisms (smaller one claimed to be a child's toy crossbow mechanism) and associated bronze-tang and rusted iron-tang crossbow bolt heads. I admit that I don't really know much about them or their actual age or dynastic origins as they're outside my European collecting focus, but all aside from the smaller mechanism came from a collection formed in the 1960s, so hopefully they aren't all fakes like so much Chinese material seems to be. Please feel free to burst my bubble if they're suspicious or known fakes; I'd rather have the facts than falsely believe I have authentic items.
    102_0213.JPG
    102_0214.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  7. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Very interesting and enjoyable post Ken. Xiaowu was quite the colorful character. I am fairly ignorant of Chinese history, but of the few emperors I do know my favorite is Wang Many. Here is a coin of his I recently acquired.
    3b4RM8PzQRm29KZpGXc674Tj5txLM7.jpg
    Xin Dynasty, Emperor Wang Mang, 7 - 23 AD
    AE Fifty Zhu, 26mm, 1.95 grams
    Obv: DA QUAN WU SHIH.
    Rev: Blank.
    Hartill - 9.2
    G&F C3.26
     
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  8. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    Your trigger mechanisms are both genuine and date to the Han Dynasty, roughly 2nd Century BC to 2nd Century AD. They are typically very small, so the smaller one is likely from a normal crossbow (something the Chinese invented). They are very interesting items, you can see them illustrated in Yang Hong's Weapons in Ancient China, figures 280-85. This is an exceptional reference, well worth it if you can find a copy. My mechanism is below.

    3.jpg 2.jpg 4.jpg 1.jpg
     
  9. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    Great post and interesting coin, @Ken Dorney ! I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the coins of Ancient China. As you know, I have an enthusiasm for ancient Judaean coins—although coins of other kingdoms and empires fascinate me also. I was generously gifted an excellent example from the Northern Song Dynasty.

    SONG_DYNASTY.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  10. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Thank you so very much Ken, it's a bit more difficult to get a solid evaluation of antiquities versus coins, and your experienced opinion regarding them is very valuable to me. Your mechanism is superb and actually shows its age, and with the more crude pins I'd suspect that it is quite older than my 2, though I'd naturally defer to your judgement on the matter. I've never had anyone around to "show me the way" regarding antiquities and thus it's often been a torturous and painful learning process during the last 17 years. I'm truly thankful Ken, it means a lot to me that you took the time to take a look at the items and provide your opinion.
     
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  11. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    It's entirely plausible that the downfall of Mang was the bloodiest civil war ever fought. Contemporary texts suggest about 26 million died altogether, many from starvation, out of a total population of about 50 million. (Pol Pot managed a similar proportion, but on a much smaller total population).

    Its interesting to note then that although the Han historian on the winning side hated Mang - they still seem to give more accurate and balanced account of his policies than modern historians have given. Reading ancient text on Mang gives an interesting window on our own times too....................

    Rob T
     
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  12. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    I agree. Fascinating but sad history. BTW, Rob, your paper on Wang Mang is the one I read the most. I often bring it to coin shows for entertaining reading. Everyone should get a copy (I've posted it before).

    Ken
     
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  13. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    That's kind of you Ken. The 500 I printed on paper in 1993 are long gone, but its free here if anyone is interested:

    https://www.academia.edu/356703/Wang_Mang

    I occasionally see it downloaded in China - I wonder what they make of it?

    Rob T
     
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  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Here is my Si Zhu. It is from the same “Dynasty”, but is a completely different type. It took the more conventional design of a Wu Zhu with a blank reverse, This type is actually scarcer than Ken’s.

    E8EAE916-0522-4E7A-8951-A96426E81FCA.jpeg
     
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  15. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Interesting crossbow mechanisms. I also had one purchased many years ago. Small but the parts are functional. Some said they belong to the Han dynasty terracotta soldiers, which were made in reduced sizes (1/3 life-size for royal tomb figurines), so as their weapons held in hand.
     
  16. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    I love this thread. Chinese coinage has always been my favourite and primary theme.

    @Ken Dorney you have a very good Xiao Jian specimen. And thanks for sharing a good write up on the Liu Song Emperor Xiao Wu. This period known as the Northern Southern Dynasties was a long period of disunity and have seen China divided for the longest time and the most significant influx of foreign influences particularly the foreign dynasties in the North.

    Whilst I don't have the same coin, I do have one which belonged to his descendant, the mad Emperor Qian Fei Di (lit. The former desposed Emperor) Liu Ziye.
    Issued in 465AD. Jing He small coin. Minted during the Jing He regal period of the Former deposed Emperor or Qian Feidi. Known for his extreme cruelty and immoral conduct, his reign lasted no more than a year before he was assassinated. During his short reign, he changed his regal period twice which was unprecedented in Chinese history and debased the coinage further with issues such as these. As the Jing He coin lasted no more than a few months. The extent of the Emperor's cruelty can Ben referred to in the following link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_Deposed_Emperor_of_Liu_Song
    20170218_101733.png
     
  17. posnerfan_48

    posnerfan_48 Active Member


    Really late to this thread, but I believe this is a seal (or chop) used to authentic documents. Still used in China today.
     
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  18. Fereydoon

    Fereydoon Member

    Nice write up @Loong Siew This guy reminds me of a Chinese version of Caligula. A young Cruel Kid
     
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  19. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Yeah.. he's regarded as one of China's worst Emperors
     
  20. Fereydoon

    Fereydoon Member

    My modest Tang coin with a nice pink patina

    tang1.jpg
     
  21. posnerfan_48

    posnerfan_48 Active Member

    Is that a mint-related dot I see in the bottom left corner?
     
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