ANACS RP/PRooF 70... But Not?

Within a couple seconds of looking at this coin, I noticed a small crater / mark on this ANACS graded RP-70 DCAM 2013 W reverse proof silver eagle. I expected something "perfect" but maybe the little "hit" on the obverse fields (shown below) was actually due to something on the die(?). If not, I always thought that ANACS was excellent and nearly on par with NGC/PCGS with grading, and that ANACS was trying to catch up in the TPG rankings. Or, is something else going on?

Thanks in advance!

 

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Not due to something on the die, but rather a bit of laser-etched frost that was missing from the die.


IMHO, and this is ONLY my opinion, this is an example of a mistake made by a TPG. They ALL do it, just over the years, PCGS and NGC have proven to do it with a lesser frequency.

Another reason why ANACS is NOT on par with NGC or PCGS

 

There as two schools of thought. An "as struck" 70 and a "perfect 70". This is an example of an "as struck 70".

 

The definition lies with the TPG. NGC has a different set of criteria than PCGS, as does ANACS. PCGS publishes their own grading standards.

There is no such thing as a perfect 70.

 

This quote/opinion is 100% UNINFORMED FICTION. If I had posted it I should have erased it immediately and IMO the poster should delete it and leave a symbol in its place while he has the chance to edit this nonsense!

I've seen many hundreds of PERFECT coins in the last year both raw and slabbed!!! I look at the coins using a stereo microscope set at 7X. If needed, I may go to 15X to make sure some particular defect was mint-made.

I'll guess that at the minimum at least 65% of major TPGS slabs labeled PR/MS-70 ARE perfect. The rate might be as high as 85%. Where the problem comes is this: Some defects are missed such as a tiny white spot or single hairline. Additionally, some TPGS's do not lower a coin to a 69 for tiny Mint-made imperfections. And finally, no TPG spends as much time examining a coin as you or I should do.

So, what is closer to the truth is this: Check any coin graded PR/MS-70 very carefully as all 70's are not perfect.

PS Check the sun on your coin...looks like a line of hits!

 

Oh boy. Where's @Big Money with the frying pan. That is a very true statement. What's that Ripley likes to say in the voice of Jack Palance... Believe, it or not

 

well, it's a good thing that I don't live or die by what you say, @Insider.

My opinions are what I stated, I am entitled, and your judgment is falling on many deaf ears on many subjects.

Your pontification about TPG 70s is nothing more than your opinion as well, and you are entitled to it regardless of how wrong you are.

TPGs grade coins according to grading standards that they themselves set. There are NO universal standards, and so a consensus may be possible, but not necessary for any coin to receive a given grade.

Quit trying to bully people around with your opinions, it's really getting tired. There are many people here who have an immense amount of knowledge, but nobody here claims to know it all... except maybe you.

If your opinion differs from someone else's, state your thoughts and let intelligence be people's guides. They are smart enough to know what makes sense without you telling them that it is the ONE correct answer.

 

If you cannot see an imperfection in a fullsize Heritage image, is it not a 70? If you would agree that a sharply-focused, 2000 pixel image is sufficient detail to determine perfection of strike, go spend some time perusing Heritage's archives. The data will change your opinion.

 

According to whom?

By what standard?

That's the question.

 

What's your standard?

2000 pixels - on my screen - is the equivalent of 25x optical magnification on a Cent, and half that on a Dollar, an image over 18 physical inches tall, 16 inches from my nose. If I cannot see a flaw in that, it's a 70.

That's my standard.

 

you're missing the point, Dave

The TPG grades a coin according to it's own standard.

If you're asking me what makes a 70 in MY eyes, I say it doesn't matter.

The coins on Heritage may or may not be 70s in YOUR standard, and if you're buying them, it's important, but if you're not, then your opinion is not part of the equation.

The OP asked about an ANACS PF 70, and I opined that the coin was overgraded, but it may be right in line with ANACS standards.

That was the discussion.

 

Your post was a real shocker to me as I've valued many of your opinions.

Apparently, you have a radio or internet show and are considered some sort of authority on coins. An opinion is one thing but posting out-and-out misinformation is a (EDIT: real shame) considering your credentials (?).

I have some news for you and other members. Perfect coins exist. I've seen them, I've owned them, and any member here who is not afraid or put off by your "Ex-Pert" opinion will agree...and that is not bullying, it's FACT.

Now, I'll suggest any member here go to a large coin show, examine some PR/MS-70 slabs, and check out my claim.

 

You said this:

"There is no such thing as a perfect 70."

You're wrong, and I do not want people reading and learning from this thread thinking you're right. They are not as frequent as any TPG might want you to believe - none of them get them all right - but 70's are not only extant, they're very near the norm for some issues.

I don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

 

IMO, those tiny hits take the coin out of the MS-70 grade so I'll agree with you on the OP's coin. However those hardly noticeable marks fall under the "possibly/probably Mint-made" category and MAY not be visible at 5X so the coin is a 70 to ANACS. While this coin is not perfect, PERFECT COINS OF THIS TYPE EXIST in MS/PR-70 slabs.

I'm more concerned with the large string of hits on the sun which makes the coin MS-66 in MY OPINION.

What about it OP? Hits, reflection. or damage to the slab surface?

 

perfect lies in the eye of the beholder, Dave...

that was all I was saying

 

NO. PERFECTION lies in the true condition of the coin not some stooge's opinion no matter who he is or whom he works for!

 

A lot of people believe that. I personally believe that every coin has a flaw of some kind. I have yet to find one that doesn't have a flaw if I spend enough time looking at it. The TPGs have their own individual standards that they grade to and thus their own qualifications that must be met to give the coin the "perfect" 70 grade. But all grading is subjective. I doubt I will ever see a coin that is 100% flawless...so I doubt I will ever see a coin that meets my personal subjective 70 grade.

That said, the OP coin clearly has at least one visible flaw (that spot in the field). The first photo also appears to have a mark on the sun...which might be on the slab, I can't really tell. Perhaps this coin meets ANACS qualifications for a 70. But, it sure doesn't meet mine. I certainly wouldn't pay more than "69 money" for this coin.

 

No claim of this has ever been made. In fact, look at my tag line. I call myself "The Village Idiot" for a reason.

If you ever heard my show, you'd know that I am just a collector who reads a lot and likes to do research. I am often wrong, but always learning and trying to pass along good and reliable information.

I am an honest collector who believes that knowledge should be shared and that in order for the hobby to flourish, people need to contribute to the overall hobby and the hobby's base of collectors, but I state my opinions and facts, and I listen to others rather than trying to constantly correct and berate people. I contribute to the hobby by sharing my knowledge and love of coins.

I work many hours to prepare the podcast, and we make it available on many media absolutely free of charge (you get what you pay for ). My motives have been clear for years... I want to help the hobby, not be thought of as some "insider", I mean expert.

I also publish who I am and I am readily available to meet with others in public to discuss what I love, collecting coins.

 

Except grading is subjective...and despite looking at thousands of coins this stooge doesn't believe he has ever seen one without some kind of flaw.

 

Richie, some people have a hard time with subtlety. The world works better when things can be viewed as black and white, but unfortunately, that's not how the world works.