An interesting fouree? of Constantine IX Monomachus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Quant.Geek, Mar 19, 2022.

  1. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    I bought this particular coin a while ago, but just got around to attributing it. It was listed as a fouree of Constantine IX Monomachus. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to be a fouree but a copper pattern or off-metal issuance. What do you think?

    Byzantine Empire: Constantine IX Monomachus (1042-1055) Fourrèe? Histamenon Nomisma (cf. Sear 1830)

    [​IMG]

    and here is the Gold version (not my coin):

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Interesting and weird. I don't think it's a fourree maybe just a bronze/copper test strike. If so, it would be very rare.
     
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  4. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    That is my thinking as well. I wonder what @Voulgaroktonou has to say. I know he has some pattern coins in his collection...
     
  5. nerosmyfavorite68

    nerosmyfavorite68 Well-Known Member

    Or some type of presentation medal?
     
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  6. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    calling @panzerman I Think he has the gold 1 and might know what thee other bronze/copper 1 is ?
     
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  7. nerosmyfavorite68

    nerosmyfavorite68 Well-Known Member

    The AE one looks flatter, or is that a trick of the camera?

    Is Mike Braunlin still with us? He might know.
     
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  8. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    I'd go with the test strike if it is schyphate. A very intriguing bit for sure. I've been actively collecting Byz and Arab/Byz coins for the past 30 years or so and have never seen anything like it.
     
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  9. Hrefn

    Hrefn Well-Known Member

    The nomismata of Constantine IX are more flat, less deeply scyphate, than the similar coins of succeeding emperors. The middle coin is a gold tertateron which is flat and thick.
    I also have never seen an off metal strike of Constantine IX. B510BA72-9317-4BCF-93A2-AAF2D04C243F.jpeg 273D611A-8A37-499F-A9A2-99E107F8A3D4.jpeg
     
  10. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Let me dig out the coin and see if I can answer the questions posed. It might take a while though...
     
  11. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Researching comes with being a numismatist and look forward to your continued quest. I have attached two pics, obv and rev of three Arab/Byz fols I picked up about three years ago in a group. I set them aside for later attention. Finally looked hard at them a few weeks ago and found something very special.

    Two were die matches.....wait there's more. Upon looking harder at the third one it finally dawned on me that all were the same die but also at different stages of wear on the die. Reverse dies were totally different on each coin. Damn, I love this hobby especially discovering really rare in that how many times does that happen? This Is my hobby, I do it for Fun.
     

    Attached Files:

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  12. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Absolutely! Its a hobby and that means you spend time with it. I know too many "collectors" who just grab coins and put them away without understanding the history behind it or the culture behind it. To me, that is more hoarding than collecting. I spend immense amount of time researching and transcribing coins and that brings A LOT of joy.

    I spend hours transcribing the Georgian dirham I posted earlier as Uyghur is HARD and I can't read or write it. There are no website that has the attribution in Unicode, so its a first using research papers and books...
     
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  13. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Ain't it Grand. Cheers!
     
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  14. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    Aside from my dry, grubby fingers, attached are some additional photos. Notice how thin it is. The dimensions are as follows:

    27 mm, 3,85 g

    I highly doubt it is a modern forgery, but its something more contemporary...

    20220322_175949.jpg

    20220322_175928.jpg
    20220322_180007.jpg 20220322_180025.jpg
     
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  15. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    It's thinner than I realized... why not think it's a fourrée with all the gold stripped off?
     
  16. Quant.Geek

    Quant.Geek Well-Known Member

    I thought of that as well. But it must have been stripped many moons ago prior to the encrustation...
     
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  17. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    I'm still here! Busy working on a lecture for Thursday, but will throw in my two tetartera worth after that!
     
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  18. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    As soon as I get through a lecture I'm preparing for Thur., will toss in my humble opinion....
     
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