I just acquired 1 '79S Morgan which arrived looking completely lifeless on the obverse. It's a uniform gray with only a couple places (one or two hair highlights, and the field right next to the head under "US") showing any luster at all. The reverse is a little more "normal," showing the beginning of normal gray silver toning. Underneath that toning is some tremendous reflectivity. What the scans don't show is, there's streaking of a slightly darker shade extending inwards 1-2mm from the "M" in "UNUM," and from a couple of the stars below it, as well as a couple on the other side between the nose and the chin. All the streaking goes the same direction, roughly from 2:00 to 8:00 on the clock. As you can see from the scans, this is a pretty nice coin otherwise.The only mark I can see on it is a 1mm scratch in the reverse field between the wing and the leaves. IMO it would be well up the MS scale if the obverse had the same PL reflectivity as the reverse. Is there enough data here for someone more experienced than I to determine if this is normal toning or the result of over-dipping? I paid very little for this relatively common Morgan, and it's a prime candidate for me to learn about removing the toning, as discussed (but not endorsed ) by the more knowledgeable around here. On the other hand, if it's all original, this is at least an MS65 with lesser eye appeal, and I probably shouldn't mess with it. Another issue is the coin having been photographically misrepresented in the auction, through the use of bright light causing the obverse to have luster which it actually lacks. This thread will help me decide on feedback for the seller. Opinions?
Now I'm no expert on dipping so I can't say for sure....but it doesn't look original....but some of the dipped coins I have seen don't look like this....I have heard that when a coin is dipped a lot if makes it look dule and gray.... Speedy
Im Not really familiar with the Morgans to know if this is a 1st or a 2nd reverse 1879-S but either way an EF possibly an AU coin ,, does not carry a large enough premium to send it in for grading you would find out shortly if it has been dipped, the Obverse certianly has an over all gray tone which leads me to think it may have been cleaned possibly some time ago, and this is the result as it retoned . Rick
Really clean looking Morgan,Strange how it's got that gun-metel gray appearance, I'm no expert either on dipping but i would guess something unusual came into contact with it,inadvertantly or otherwise.
Scans of coins are good for some things and bad for others. Typically, scans will wash out all luster unless you tilt the coin. But scans tend to show any and all marks that may not show up in digital pics. And while scans do not show luster - they do show breaks in luster. Now, that being said, I cannot say whether the coin has been dipped or not based on the pics. You comment that there is considerable luster under the toning on the reverse. That would indicate the coin may not have been dipped. But if there is no luster under the toning on the obverse - that would indicate that the coin probably has been dipped. You have the coin in hand - so only you can tell. As to the grade - I do not think the coin has been circulated due to lack of marks. And based on the pics the obverse is a uniform color which usually indicates no breaks in luster. But the reverse - the eagles breast shows plenty of dark grey on the high points and what appears to be rub marks in the fields. These are breaks in luster - but there's several ways that can happen. And in this case, if I had to guess, I'd say this coin was likely stored in a coin cabinet for a long period of time - reverse down. So technically the coin is uncirculated. But being a '79-S, it would never make MS65 without very good luster. And based on what you are telling us it does not have it.
There's a little spot on the obverse - that "J" shaped mark in front of the neck - which shows there's luster under whatever is on the rest. I'm dying to find out if I can expose the rest. As for grading, there's a surprising number of high-quality images in the Internet of slabbed coins. Between Google and the PCGS Set Registry, I can generally find enough reference to augment my limited experience with deciding between AU and MS, except for the New Orleans strikes. This coin shows more detail than many images I've found of PCGS and NGC MS-level slabs of '79Ss. If it's circulated, it was a great strike to begin with. Methinks this will be my testbed for, um, processes which shouldn't be discussed publicly.
I'm bumping this to report that after, um, further research, I have concluded that this coin was undoubtedly overdipped on the obverse. It's a damn shame. This coin was unmarked. Further, my "research" has resulted in an absolutely stunning PL reverse. Well, it was an inexpensive lesson, and I gained valuable knowledge for the future.
How about an "after" photo/scan? Sounds like I'm trying to learn some of the same things. I'd like to see what it looks like now. Also, if you were to do some "research", would one rinse in distilled water or isopropyl alcohol? I've heard everything from air dry to pat dry to evaporate to water rinses.....
Here's the "after: The reverse scan does the new luster no justice, of course. I've managed to lessen the overall grayness of the obverse, but it's still there. The darker spots in the obverse scan are, in fact, areas of greater luster, indicating there's *something* under that coating, but I hesitate to go after it with any process more serious than I've already applied. I followed all instructions precisely as given by the manufacturer, none of which involved anything purer than running tap water. This is a damn shame. I scan at 1200dpi, and at that resolution there's no mark on the entire coin measuring more than six pixels excepting two small lines in the reverse fields which are too shallow to appear on the scan. This coin would be an absolute keeper if I could rediscover the obverse. I have to keep it anyways because I couldn't Ebay it in good conscience. If we assume OldDan's theory is correct, is there a way for me to ameliorate the "failed toning?" For the record, I've got $20 invested in the coin.
