I was just looking for a good deal on a large size note on the bay. Have you noticed the seller's comments? " this beauty should be regraded it is gem." " I have been selling notes for over 20 years, the note is a 65 or 66 easy." "This Gem was cheated by the grader." "Finest example in this grade we have ever seen." Do they really think we fall for this? When I see this type of thing it make me want to pass. And worst of all: " To me this note looks CH / Gem, but you be the judge."
Yep, a lot of them are just fishing the bay. They will catch something eventually. RickieB: I think he was referring to the descriptions used to sell notes, not necessarily anyone in particular.
Based on the title of this thread and because this is CoinTalk, if the OP want's to discuss something and have us agree/disagree, we should really have at least some visual example of what he is quoting as having read, in eBay listings, to draw our own conclusions from, otherwise it's just a statement from the OP with nothing to back it up. In that case, the comments from the OP could apply to anything under the sun listed on eBay which a potential buyer or competing seller subjectively takes issues with, no matter the subject/item being described. So, on this forum, the thread is pointless without a link or image to go by... and we are being asked by the OP, "Do they really think we fall for this?" I bolded "we" as it applies to CT forum members being addressed by the OP in a questioning form. As the mantra goes, we need photos, please. Please post a link or images themselves to advance the discussion. Thanks. :smile
OK Krispy, my mistake. I assumed everyone would know about these type of things. Here is a link to an EBay listing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-1886-SILVER-DOLLAR-BACK-CERTIFICATE-PCGS-64PPQ-SUPER-/270720035755?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f082bebab#ht_5140wt_1066 This is for a $5 Silver Certificate graded as 64 PPQ. Note in the sellers description the following: This gorgeous example might ceertainly have graded higher. Why do so many seller's feel the need to say in their listing that their 62,63,64 note should be graded higher. Why do the seller's feel the need to out guess the grader? Do they think I will buy the note and resubmit for grading based upon their opinion. I know they are just trying to sell something. My point is only I get soooooo tired of seeing this type of thing. So, now that I have posted a visual example for Krispy and others to see for themselves does this type of listing bother anyone else? Why can't they just let the note stand on it's own without comments about it should be graded higher? I would be proud to own the note in this listing at 64 PPQ. There are hundreds of graded notes like this on the bay with this type of comment. There are no notes with a comment that the note is over graded in the seller's opinion. This just turns me off.
Buy the way, I am no expert on paper money. In fact I am a novice. I am on cointalk mostly to learn from the experts that I have found on here such as Krispy. I will try to do better with my next thread in order to further the conversation. I just recieved an FR-39 Graded 65 by CGA. This is the second note I have purchased from the bay. The first being my FR-236 graded as 64PPQ. In both cases there was no attempt by the seller to try and "out grade" the slabber.
We do know, which is why we know to ask for the links so as to have something more precise to base judgements/comments on, rather than make generalized comments. Thanks for the links. Now lets see what we all think about the example you presented us with... but first, you've already answered your own question about why they say a note should grade higher, the seller is 'just trying to sell something.' No, the item will not sell to you, because you are more informed and have a differing opinion as well as recoil at their over-estimation. That keeps you safe from potential hacks misleading you, but someone else can be wooed by the claims when they cannot see the note in hand before bidding/buying or don't have the requisite skills to differ with a misleading sellers sales pitch. Less informed bidders wouldn't even understand how to contend with the price asked for the note, but all the pushy hype in the redundant bold colored text of the item description might get someone's heart in a panic to spend money on something else the seller likely has listed for less money. I doubt this note, even if in the possession of this seller would ever sell on eBay. It's more a piece of paid advertising to bolster their listings. Also, with as many notes available as you found out there which interest you in higher grades, you can easily choose not to work with the sellers who misrepresent in their listings. I find on eBay that many in the numismatic categories, struggle to charm grades beyond what professional grading companies already stated. And this is based on grading widely accepted by most of the hobby, that usually tends to agree with grades assigned, outside of some rare mistaken grades of course. The better step to take is a step away from eBay and this trading environment entirely if it's as frustrating to you as it has become for me too. Elevate your collection and your relationship with sellers by following auctions on more premium services, such as Heritage Auctions, Teletrade, Bowers & Merina, Lyn Knight, among others and kiss eBay goodbye. Say so long with the distress eBay sellers caused you when you find your time wasted by these listings you're mired in. I agree with you, the misrepresentation by many sellers on eBay turns me off. Likewise, eBay policies turn me off, perhaps more so. The company's lack of action on fake errors as well as a recent decision to disallow eBucks certificates for purchasing bullion is discouraging. Unless I know a seller from a forum when it comes to a numismatic item, I hardly peruse eBay for much anymore than when someone brings up something here. The internet is full of resources from which to acquire premium notes and other things we may desire, have a look around. Again thanks for the links. Regards. :thumb:
Krispy, Thank you sir, I was not even aware of the premium services you have described in you post. I will spend some time checking these out!
Welcome aboard. We could fill pages with Ebay annoyances. The use (or overuse) of the word "rare". $2.00 yellow seal notes. From an estate . . . Errors that aren't even errors. One annoyance I have of discussion boards is only identifying notes by catalog numbers. I don't own a Friedburg catalog so I don't know whether you are referring to a Grand Watermelon or a 2009 $1.00 Federal Reserve Note. Please take this as a helpful suggestion more than a criticism. I know you are new to paper money and this discussion board.
Lettow, Thanks for your comments, and for being patient with me as I learn the rules here. I am now on my phone and it is hard to respond. You can view my new notes in the new aquisitions thread. I posted them there today.
All those comments on the ebay description, as you illustrated, is just a salesman's patter. For every person it annoys enough to get them not to buy, more are pulled in by the patter. Most of the salesmen that employ that strategy, IMO, are not equipped to grade a coin or other item, like books and postcards that have grading standards. They are the same type that will use the line "Great condition for it's age" or the like. Knowledgeable collectors, I think, can tune out this patter when it comes down to buy. Maybe they will have an item you would want, but you can't trust their come-ons in order to buy it. Buy the coin (or note), not the sales' pitch.
JBOCON, thanks for the interesting post and we welcome all new members to paper money collecting. As for myself, I have learned a lot in the few years I have been a part of this forum and we hope that you are able to glean some knowledge here as well. While we appreciate the willingness to learn the rules here, by all means don't let it hinder your enthusiasm for the hobby or contribution to this forum.
Thank you sir. I am excited to be here. In reading through the threads here, I am learning a lot. For me, this learning process is the fun part of getting into paper money. A lot of very knowledgeable people here to learn from and this learning process will not hinder me at all.
There is actually a legal term for this stuff - "Puffery", which Wikipedia defines as: Puffery as a legal term refers to promotional statements and claims that express subjective rather than objective views, which no "reasonable person" would take literally.[SUP][1][/SUP] Puffery serves to "puff up" an exaggerated image of what is being described and is especially featured in testimonials. Personally I find these less objectionable (repeat the mantra, "buy the note, not the grade") than the eBay habit of stuffing keywords into listing subjects. I'm often looking for French notes (gee, surprise there) and a search for "France" will turn up many notes from other countries which for no relevant reason have the word "France" appended to the listing. It's done purely to cause their listing of a note from Outer Slobobvia to pop up more often. Dave
I hear you! A 1995 $1 FRN with a 295 back plate engraving error being portrayed as an "rare back plate error" and the asking price is $599! Misalignment "errors" with completely insignificant misalignments. "Cutting" errors, including hacked-up uncut sheets. In summary, buy the note, not the hype.
FOR REALS $17,500! That seller is out of his mind! The grade is just about right! 65PPQ, that back needs to be smack square in the center! That example is printed a little high on the back. Dude I can buy a car with that money, and it better be perfect with a capital P for seventeen grand! Demand for these '86 Morgan Dollar Backs is crazy out of whack! I might be switching my 2012 wish list to the '91 neutered version of the $5 Silver Cert and just stare at my '86 B.E.P. card! Hey the souvenir card was made with the actual plates LOL When I start hearing the used car spill with over priced notes, I move on... Seventeen-Five! I bet he paid seventeen hundred to some poor slub that walked in his store! Probably waved a stack of $20 under his nose to make him or her cave! My book shows a 63 goes for $9500! That's best case, stars aligned, full on retail! Than you have to add the Pawn Stars script: The economy is bad, and I have overhead bla bla bla...
Ron, the note isn't meant to sell, surely not at $17,500. Though we can't discount someone writing to the Seller with an appropriate offer, for much less. The high price is just for being catchy to eyes browsing listings. I suggest these Sellers just want you to check the note, then move on to their "other items" where one might find something less expensive to give them your money for. The $17,500 is simply too much for people who don't know anything about these notes to spend, so they won't, and no one who does about the value range of such a note, is going to fork that much over knowing as they do what the note should bid for. It's an advertisement, as I tried to explain earlier in this thread. There are scores of sellers who constantly have notes and coins listed like this, bearing crazy jacked up prices, yet completed sales never show these things sell for these amounts on eBay. It's just a gimmick, nothing to get excited about. We see it all the time and just move on.
