A young Faustina II, when Pudicitia could be used without irony

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    This copper as of Faustina II bears her earliest obverse legend, FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL (for Faustina Augusta, daughter of Pius Augustus), and is dated by Strack to AD 147-149 and by Mattingly to AD 147-150. It was issued under the authority of her father, Antoninus Pius. Since Faustina II was born (probably) on September 21, AD 130, she would have been anywhere from 16 to 19 years of age when it was struck.

    Pudicitia is typically depicted veiled and with a scepter or sacrificing over an altar. This is a rather unusual depiction of Pudicitia in that she lacks a scepter and is adjusting her clothing with both hands. I am unaware of Pudicitia being portrayed in this way on any other Roman issue.

    Post your coins of Faustina II issued under the authority of her father, coins of Pudicitia, or anything you feel is relevant!

    Faustina Jr PVDICITIA S C as.jpg
    Faustina II, AD 147-175.
    Roman Æ as, 9.50 g, 27.1 mm, 12 h.
    Rome, AD 147-150.
    Obv: FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL, Bust of Faustina II, draped, with band of pearls, right.
    Rev: PVDICITIA S C, Pudicitia standing facing, head left, lifting veil from shoulders with both hands.
    Refs: RIC 1403b, BMCRE 2157-58; Cohen 179 var. (no stephane); Strack 1301; RCV 4731; UCR 759; Dinsdale 029570.

    Compare her portrait to this early bust at the Capitoline Museum:

    Faustina Jr statue Musei Capitolini di Roma.jpg
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  3. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @Roman Collector.....Very nice coin I do like the portrait.
    I have a denarius with almost the same obverse legend but missing the 'E' at the end of FAVSTINA my Latin is awful but for sure you know the difference in meaning? I assume this coin was still issued under her father?
    faustina black.jpg
    Faustina II Junior Silver Denarius 3.36g.,17mm, Rome mint, A.D. 154-156,
    Obverse. FAVSTINA AVG-PIIAVGFIL Draped bust of Faustina right,
    Reverse. CONC-O-RDIA, Concordia seated left, holding flower & resting left arm on cornucopiae set on globe below seat.
    (RCV 4704; RIC 502a)
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  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    I’ve always found these young portraits of Faustina II quite attractive. I bought this one 6 years ago at the London Coin Fair (on my birthday!).

    AE As or Dupondius. 11.5g, 26mm. Rome mint, AD 147-150. RIC III (Pius) 1403; Sear 4731. O: FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL, diademed and draped bust right. R: PVDICITIA, Pudicitia standing left, holding out cloak in both hands; S-C in field.
    Ex Seaby, June 1962 (price of 32s 6d noted on ticket)
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  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Yes, the E at the end of Faustina indicates either the genitive case, "of Faustina" or the dative case, "for/to Faustina." Without the E, it's in the nominative case, or simply "Faustina." The inscriptions were used at different times. Yours is dated later than the as I illustrate above.

    Strack (S) and Mattingly (M) each date the various issues of Faustina II on the basis of her titulature. In summary, their dates are as follows:

    Issue 1. FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL; AD 147-149(S),147-150(M).
    Issue 2. FAVSTINA AVG ANTONINI AVG PII FIL; AD 149-152(S), 150-152(M).
    Issue 3. FAVSTINA AVG PII AVG FIL; AD 152-156(S), 152-153(M).
    Issue 4. FAVSTINA AVGVSTA AVG[VSTI] PII F[IL]; AD 152-156(S), 153-154(M).
    Issue 5. FAVSTINA AVGVSTA with AVGVSTI PII FIL on the reverse; AD 156-161(S), 154-156 or 157(M).

    That's a lovely coin, @Spaniard ! On the globe under her throne, you can see the crossed bands that represent the intersection of the zodiac (ecliptic) and the celestial equator. This “X” is called the equinoctial cross, and represents the spring and autumnal equinoxes (where the Sun crosses the celestial equator). It signified the belief in cosmic cycles of birth, death, and rebirth. Here is a neat article about this called "Symbolism of the Sphere" by Michael R. Molnar (from the June 1998 Celator).

    My example is not nearly so nice:

    Faustina Jr CONCORDIA seated denarius.jpg

    Wow! What a beautiful birthday gift to yourself, @zumbly ! Yours is certainly less circulated than mine and you can see the young empress's hairstyle quite well. I think yours is almost certainly a dupondius because of the brassy highlights and its higher weight than mine.
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    It is not at all unusual for the first issues for a junior/female member of the Imperial family to be issued with dative legends "in the name of/for" rather that the standard nominative. The most unusual of this sort of thing was the Trajan coins marked in the dative 'TRAIANO' even though he was fully and without question the emperor.
    Trajan as TRAIANO:

    The young Commodus, just made Caesar, was introduced to the public in the Dative 'COMMODO'. In case anyone wondered, the legend included AVG FIL (filius = son).

    It is not unusual for a Roman in power to delay taking some of his many titles for just a while rather like someone shuffling his feet and saying, "Aw, shucks." The old days of the Republic were long gone but making it appear that you were humbled by all those honors was still in style. Today we hear some politicians still saying how honored they are to be entrusted with the great office they are undertaking even though they just finished a knock down, drag out fight with opponents where no one admitted there was anyone for the job except for themselves. Coins were propaganda. They lacked TV ads back then.
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  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    @Roman Collector.....Thanks for the reply and breakdown really appreciated.
    Found the link related to the globe very interesting great to learn something new........Thanks again
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  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    A denarius of the young Faustina II, issued under her father, bearing the same early obverse legend as the coin posted by @Roman Collector to begin this thread:

    Faustina II [Junior] (wife of Marcus Aurelius & daughter of Antoninus Pius), AR Denarius, Rome mint, 147-149 AD (under Antoninus Pius). Obv. Draped bust right, single circlet of pearls around head, FAVSTINAE AVG PII AVG FIL / Venus standing left, holding apple in right hand and, in left hand, rudder set on dolphin, VENVS. RIC III [Antoninus] 517c, RSC II 266a, BMCRE [Antoninus] 1067. 18 mm., 3.45 g.

    Faustina II - young (under Antoninus Pius) - jpg version.jpg
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  9. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    This one just came in the mail yesterday, part of an unattributed eBay lot. Well, it's not pretty, but I didn't see one in this thread, so this one's for you, RC - an early Faustina II Pudicitia sestertius issued by her dad:

    Faustina II - Sest. Pudicitia NC lot June 2020 (0).jpg

    Faustina II Æ Sestertius
    (c. 147-150 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    FAVSTINAE AVG PII [AVG FIL], draped bust right / [PVDICITIA], Pudicitia seated
    left, drawing out veil with right hand, left hand in lap, S C in field.
    RIC 1381; BMCRE 2143.
    (26.33 grams / 29 x 27 mm)
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  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Excellent! I do not have an example in my collection.
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I am not familiar with PUDICITIA. Mine is veiled, but she does not look as if she is sacrificing or with a scepter. Although she is veiled.

    Curious of your comments. She is NOT on a Faustina coin, rather Lucilla. Thanks.

    RI Lucilla 164-182 CE, issued 164 CE, 3rd Hairstyle
    AR Denarius 18mm 2.8g
    Rome mint 164-169 CE
    Pudicitia, arranging robe across chest.
    RIC III 780
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    That was issued in AD 164, after her marriage to Verus, and depicts her third hairstyle. Pudicitia comes in two slight design variations on that coin: hand is either arranging drapery on right shoulder, or across breast. Yours is the across breast variety.
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you. Edited above
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  14. Gary R. Wilson


    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-H9QV76EkR9h8-Faustina II.jpg

    Faustina II (Augusta)
    Coin: Brass Sestertius
    FAVSTINA AVGVSTA - Draped bust right
    AVGVSTI PII FIL, S-C - Concordia standing left, holding patera and cornucopiae.

    Mint: Rome (c.145-146 AD)
    Wt./Size/Axis: 29.20g / 32mm / 12h
    Rarity: Scarce
    RIC III 1390v-As
    Acquisition/Sale: indalocolecciones eBay $0.00 02/19
    Notes: Mar 14, 20 - The Gary R. Wilson Collection

    Lifetime portrait struck under her father Antoninus Pius.

    FAVSTINA AVGVSTA=Faustina Augusta
    AVGVSTI PII FIL=daughter of Pius Augustus
  15. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    In celebration of @Roman Collector and his terrific Faustina Fridays, and Fridays in general, I am resurrecting this thread - also because I just got another seated Pudicitia type for Faustina II. This one is an as (or dupondius; but I am pretty sure it is an as). She wears a stephane here:

    Faustina II - As Pudicitia seated lot May 2022 (0).jpg
    Faustina II Æ As
    (c. 147-150 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    [FAVSTIN]AE AVG PII AVG FIL, draped bust right w. stephane / [PVDICITIA], S C, Pudicitia seated left, drawing out veil with right hand, left hand at side.
    RIC III Antoninus Pius 1404c (as); Cohen 187; BMC 2159.
    (7.54 grams / 23 x 21 mm)
    eBay May 2022

    Here it is with the sestertius I posted above - I never said they were pretty, but they do seem to be a somewhat scarce type :sorry::

    Faustina II - As & Sest. Pudicitia seated (0).jpg
  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Very cool, @Marsyas Mike! That type with the stephane is quite scarce indeed! The British Museum does not have one in their collection. Strack cites examples in Paris (BnF), Bologna (Museo Communale), and Naples (Nationalmuseum). None at OCRE. One sold by CNG, another at NAC. The stephaned bust is known only in the middle bronze denomination, not in the sestertius.

    Here's the CNG example.


    I only have the version where she wears a strand of pearls in her hair:

    Faustina Jr PVDICITIA S C seated dupondius.jpg
  17. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Here is my bronze example with Pudicitia. :)
  18. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the kind words and those lovely examples, @Roman Collector - I will add these to my files for sure.
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  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    That is really a very lovely coin @happy_collector - both the portrait and the graceful rendition of Pudicitia on the reverse are spectacular. Nice colors too. Thanks for sharing that beauty.
  20. Edessa

    Edessa Well-Known Member

    Roman Egypt, Alexandria. Faustina II, AD. Billon Tetradrachm (22mm, 13.69g). Dated RY 17 of Antoninus (AD 153/154). Obv: FAVCTINA CEBACCTH; Draped bust right. Rev: LIZ around Diakaosyne seated left holding scales and cornucopiae Ref: Köln 1969. About Very Fine.

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