For Peace and Morgan dollar error varieties, VAM's, does anyone have a better reference site or publication than www.vamworld.com? I have found it a lot harder to navigate, and find particular VAM listings on that site since it was revamped a short time ago. The Peace silver dollars are my absolute favorite coins, and I have recently begun trying to fill the many holes in my Morgan collection. I have found several Peace dollars with large and multiple die cracks, however, can find no specific reference to the individual coins. Some are examples of two different VAM listings, while others are undocumented. Clearly the ones that have two distinct and clear errors, as defined by Vamworld, really should be, and probably are listed as a separate VAM; but since the website has undergone so many changes, it can be impossible to find a certain VAM, even though there are certified examples of that VAM. I have found that searching for a particular date, followed by the word 'rarity' will generally give a link to the complete list of VAM's for that date, of course sorting them by rarity. So I do not think I am missing any listings. I do suspect that many VAM listings have been accidentally deleted when the site went through its rebirth. As a relatively new member of Vamworld, I am also curious how one would go about submitting a particular coin to be listed as a VAM. I have one example that I have two of, with the exact same die break spanning half the coins obverse, yet can not find a VAM listing for it at all....in fact, I can not find anything thats even close. I did meticulously check every VAM variety listed for that date. To get a coin listed as a VAM, does the coin have to be submitted to someone, or can pictures be sent in? I have looked at the menus and links, but am having trouble finding information on how to get a coin listed. I would appreciate any information you may have on the proceedure for VAM submission required on the vamworld website, and/or any information on other sites or publications that contain a list of VAM's by date, and have photos to reference. I know I can post photos of individual coins here, and if no one can provide an answer to my inquiry, I will do that. Unfortunately, that will not get a particular VAM listed. (I have at least one that warrents being listed). Thanks in advance folks and as always...........HAPPY HUNTING!
Hi Welcome to ct! Imho, Have you checked this reference page? http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1896-O_VAMs Vamworld is the only site I can think of. I’m sure there are others here with more experience in vam’s. It’s best to post a picture of said coin (s). Clean clear photos of both sides. That you would like the experts to see and give you a proper evaluation. Happy hunting!
My best reference is @messydesk If you need help with a VAM, or want to get yours verified/certified, you can view his website here: https://www.varslab.com/
@Jim K The reason you don't find die cracks attributed as VAM's is because they are not attributed unless they are severe like the 1888-O Scarface. Die cracks on Morgan and Peace dollars are very common because it takes 130-150 tons of pressure to strike these behemoths. Yes, John @messydesk , is the "go-to guy" for knowledge about VAM's, but as far as I know, Leroy Van Allen is the only person who can authenticate a new variety. The procedure for submissions and Leroy's address have always been posted on the VAMWorld site...... http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/Guidelines_for_Die_Varieties Chris
Is this due to the change in platform from Wikispaces to our self-hosted Mediawiki+phpBB format or is it due to content? The content was migrated as is from the old wiki to the new one last August using a bunch of automated scripts I had to develop. There's a thread here about this that I posted at the time. The content and quality of the content is like that of any open wiki. Anyone can upload photos and change text. As a result, there can be some wrong information. This is often caught by other users, but sometimes it isn't. There's no requirement that an administrator review changes before they become available. If you have specific pages you'd like reviewed, ask about them on the discussion forums. You could also let me know and I'll take a quick look. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "two distinct and clear errors." Are you referring to two things that cannot be on the same coin at the same time because they are from different dies? If so, then I agree that there's something that needs to be resolved there with either the VAMWorld page or the VAM listing itself. "Rarity" is not a good search term for VAMs. The R-number is assigned exclusively by Leroy Van Allen at the time a VAM is first cataloged. It is an estimate based on how many coins could have been produced from the dies in that stage based on looking at one coin. The estimate methodology has also evolved over the past 50 years. Further, there is very little correlation between this number and the value or desirability of a VAM. The best way to navigate is to click on "Peace VAMs by Date," which is about half-way down the navigation pane on the left. For searching, it can be useful to search for particular features on the wiki. Searching for '"1923-P" spike shoulder' (date and mint need to be in quotes because of the dash separating them) will bring up all 1923-P VAMs that mention a spike at the eagle's shoulder. You have to know some of the lingo to be able to do this effectively, but that comes quickly. The first thing to do is to post a photo on the VAMWorld discussion board that shows what you think is new. On Peace dollars, a crack below IN GOD, going down across the bust, and coming back up near TRV is very common and is not something listed as a separate VAM unless the crack is very strong. The only way to get a new VAM listed is by having Leroy Van Allen inspect it and agree to add it to the catalog. There is a link to Guidelines for Coin Submittal and Die Varieties on the VAMWorld home page not to far down. Again, it's best to post photos to the VAMWorld discussion forum, because you will get a lot of people who know Peace dollar VAMs looking at them. You will have to sign up for an account and wait for the administrator (me) to approve it, which I usually do rather quickly.
Using the term "undocumented VAM" is actually fairly accurate to describe things not yet in the catalog. There were huge numbers of Peace dollar dies, and new die pairs are being added all the time as long as they have significant enough features to warrant it.
So here is an example of what I was trying to say. Hopefully pictures are worth a thousand words. This is an 1891-P Morgan which I purchased just two days ago. Going through the list of all VAM's for this date and mintmark on Vamworld.com, I found that it has the small raised dot from a die chip as defined as a VAM-1A. However, upon further examination it also appears to have the doubled ear as defined by VAM-2. So what do I call this example? Given the choice I would say its a VAM-2, as it seems it is more desirable, yet it also has the attributes of VAM-1A. What what do you folks think? For the record, the dot is clearly a raised piece of metal on the coins surface, and is not just a bag mark or ding. I tried to adjust the lighting so the shadow produced makes this easier to see. The doubled ear is darn near identicle to the pictures on the vamworld website. I look forward to hearing your comments. Thanks in advance.
Doubled ear is VAM 2. The die chip you show happens to be on the VAM 2 obverse die, but it's considered minor and isn't really mentioned. It is different from the chip on the VAM 1A obverse die in location and size. When comparing die chips against those that are shown on a particular VAM, you need an exact match. Die chips can be like fingerprints on a die -- no two are exactly the same. If you have a die chip on Liberty's upper lip in addition to the doubled ear, you have a later, and rare, die stage known as VAM 2A. Still the same die, but with an additional die chip.
Very good info there. While the die chip on my coin is slightly different than the one shown for VAM-1A, I thought this may be the case. The fact that the chip is not mentioned on the VAM-2 caused the confusion. I did look at the VAM-2A, but my coin did not have one of the markers the VAM-2A mentioned. Thanks messydesk! I have one or two more that display attributes of multiple VAM's. I will read the descriptions again, and post any that still confuse me. I'll take the VAM-2 anyday. I only paid $24.00 for it as it was not being sold as a VAM. Just a guy selling parts of his collection. I needed it to fill a hole in my small Morgan collection.
P.S. I thought the difference in the shape of the die chip on my coin might have been due to a later die state.
