A NEW (TO ME) VIEW OF LIBERTAS

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gavin Richardson, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Hadrian 117-138 A.D.; Struck: 119-121 A.D.

    AE Sestertius; 32 mm.; 22.25 g.

    IMP CAESAR TRAIANVS HADRIANVS AVG PM TR P COS III; laureate bust right.

    LIBERTAS PVBLICA; Libertas, draped, seated left on throne, holding branch in right hand, which rests on lap, and vertical sceptre in left. SC. RIC 2.583 (a); C. 948 “About VF/F. Wonderful turquoise patina.” From an unsold lot from an Artemide Aste live auction, Asta Numismatica 40e, held September 9-10, 2017.


    So yesterday I received my second-only sestertius: a Hadrian from an Artemide Aste unsold lot. (My first experience with them, and a positive one.) The reaction between the bronze and whatever elements were in the earth at its find spot resulted in its lovely turquoise patina. And though it has plenty of honest wear, you can still see the fine details of one of Rome’s finer emperors.

    I posted it to Facebook and someone asked who the reverse depicted. “Public Liberty” is the easy answer, but in researching LIBERTAS I found that it meant something very different from what my (American) mind conceived it to be. I was thinking along the lines of a kind of civic, government-abetted freedom, which seemed ironic since Hadrian was known for consolidating imperial power at the expense of the Senate. But I read this blurb from Libertas as a Political Idea at Rome During the Late Republic and Early Principate, by C. H. Wirszubski, and it changed my mind:

    “It is interesting that from Galba onwards LIBERTAS PUBLICA becomes a very common legend on imperial coins. Libertas publica means freedom as it is enjoyed by the public, that is to say absence of oppression and lawlessness; it signifies a state of affairs, not a form of government. Under the Empire it meant order, security, and confidence. It was in fact tantamount to securitas.” (p. 159)

    IMG_0712.JPG
    So it turns out the LIBERTAS legend didn’t really mean what I thought it meant; the reverse legend, then, seems far more interesting and nuanced than American-style “freedom.”

    Feel free to pile on with your LIBERTATES or HADRIANS.
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Perhaps it is not too far off to show this dupondius of Hadrian with SALVS PVBLICA.
    rc1940bb0700.jpg
     
  4. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  5. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    This is a coin of Brutus with the head of Libertas on the obverse. I would argue that this coin depicts liberty as the absence of tyranny. It was the fear of the lack of liberty that was one of the motivations of the assassination of Julius Caesar.

    Brutus new.jpg
     
  6. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I'd agree. I wonder if the popular concept of LIBERTAS shifts over time. Late Republic="No dictators, please." Middle Empire="More bread, please."
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
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  7. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    A very interesting post, Gavin. Along the same lines, I've done a little research on Marsyas the Satyr (my avatar). Marsyas too represented liberty of a sorts - not necessarily in the modern American sense. Over the past few months this topic has fascinated me -

    Here are a couple bits from Wikipedia:

    (From the Marsyas article): "Among the Romans, Marsyas was cast as the inventor of augury[22] and a proponent of free speech (the philosophical concept παρρησία, "parrhesia") and "speaking truth to power." The earliest known representation of Marsyas at Rome stood for at least 300 years in the Roman Forum near or in the comitium, the space for political activity.[23] He was depicted as a silen,[24] carrying a wineskin on his left shoulder and raising his right arm. The statue was regarded as an indicium libertatis, a symbol of liberty, and was associated with demonstrations of the plebs, or common people. It often served as a sort of kiosk upon which invective verse was posted..."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsyas#Prophecy_and_free_speech_at_Rome

    (From the article devoted to the denarius of Censorinus): "Another view of the symbolism in this coin is that it is politically driven.[7] Apollo was seen as a symbol of harmony, especially in his manifestation at Rome.[8] During this time, Rome was experiencing a period of political upheaval, connected to the Social Wars.[8] Marsyas was regarded as a symbol of political freedom, particularly free speech. On the coin, Marsyas is wearing a Phrygian cap, a symbol of liberty..."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius_of_L._Censorinus

    For some reason, the Censorinus denarius is often described with Marsyas wearing a Phrygian cap. He is not - he is bare-headed and bald (and drunk and naked). Unless I am missing a rare variety somewhere. Here is an example:

    Censorinus Marsyas.jpg
     
  8. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    An interesting nexus of concepts with Marsyas. Dionysius is sometimes called "liber" presumably because we are less inhibited after a glass or wine or three. I wonder if there is any connection between Marsyas's drunkenness and his ability to speak truth to power! ;)
     
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  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I need to be shown evidence of this meaning of Libertas. Are you confusing it with Liberalitas which is used at times of public donatives?
     
  10. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I was being flippant, responding to the idea that LIBERTAS might mean more "order, security, and confidence" in the second century than freedom from tyranny during the Republic. It wasn't a particularly good example.
     
  11. Deposito

    Deposito New Member

    Artemide Aste is really good for Roman Republic coinage, I have bought a lot from them over the last few years. They are not subject to the same export restrictions as Italy since they're in San Marino. Nice chunky green AE coin there
     
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  12. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Yes. Some deals can be had there, esp. in the unsold lots.
     
  13. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    That’s a really lovely green sestertius!

    Here’s one from Constantine I.

    3BA8A5F3-B069-4F82-8360-5B62AF913444.png

    Clearly, in the later years of the Empire, Libertas Publica meant ‘yacht parties for everyone!’... :D
     
  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Severus Alexander Libertas Sestertius.jpg
    Severus Alexander, AD 222-235
    Roman Æ sestertius; 21.72 gm, 28.4 mm
    Rome, AD 229
    Obv: IMP SEV ALEXANDER AVG, Laureate head right; slight drapery on left shoulder
    Rev: P M TR P VIII COS III P P S C, Libertas standing left, holding pileus and scepter
    Refs: RIC 492; BMCRE 570; Cohen 372; RCV 7996
    Notes: Die break affects S on reverse.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017
  15. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Interesting. Since LIBERTAS is not spelled out in the reverse legend, I wonder what reverse attributes allow for this identification. Maybe the freedman's cap, or pileus?
     
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  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Exactly. The design is used on this LIBERTAS PVBLICA antoninianus of T-bone:

    Trebonianus Gallus LIBERTAS PVBLICA antoninianus.jpg
     
  17. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Actually, modern scholarship interprets Libertas on this coin as meaning "Jump through the hoops, Everyone."
     
  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    ROMAN REPUBLIC LIBERTAS:

    upload_2017-10-20_7-20-17.png
    RR Gaius Cassius Longinus & P Corn Lentulus Spinther AR den 42 BCE military mint Brutus Cassius Smyrna Libertas r- jug & lituus 18mm 3.3g

    RR Egnatius Maxsumus 76 BCE Libertas Roma Venus Wolf Head S 326 Cr 391-3 Obv-Rev.jpg
    RR Egnatius Maxsumus 76 BCE Libertas Roma Venus Wolf Head Sear 326 Craw 391-3

    upload_2017-10-20_7-21-52.png
    RR Porcius Laeca 125 BCE AR Den Roma - Libertas in Quadriga holding pileus and rod crowned by Victory flying Sear 146 Craw 270-1
     
  19. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Another interesting thread with so many cool coins!!

    I'll add my recent purchase of an As of Hadrian with the Salus reverse.

    hadrian as salus.jpg hadrian asric 678 reverse.jpg
     
  20. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Nerva 3.jpg
    NERVA
    AE Dupondius
    OBVERSE: IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P COS III P P, radiate head right
    REVERSE: LIBERTAS PVBLICA S-C, Liberty standing left, holding pileus and sceptre
    Struck at Rome, 97 AD
    13.2g, 27mm
    RIC 87
    Elagabalus 4.jpg
    ELAGABALUS
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: IMP ANTONINVS PIVS AVG, laureate & draped bust right
    REVERSE: LIBERTAS AVG, Libertas standing left, holding pileus & scepter, star in left or right field
    Struck at Rome, 220-21 AD
    2.35g, 19mm
    RIC IV 107
    Trebonianus Gallus 1.jpg
    TREBONIANUS GALLUS
    AR Antoninianus
    OBVERSE:IMP C C VIB TREB GALLVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust, right
    REVERSE: LIBERTAS PVBLICA, Libertas standing left, holding pileus and transverse scepter
    Struck at Uncertain mint (Milan?), AD 252
    3.5g, 21mm
    RIC 70; Cohen 68; RCV 9636; Hunter 50
     
  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    EMPIRE LIBERTAS:

    RI Nerva AE Dupondius 96-98 CE LIBERTAS PVBLICA Obv-Rev TIF.jpg
    RI Nerva AE Dupondius 96-98 CE LIBERTAS PVBLICA -pileus TIF

    RI Claudius 41-54 Ae As 28mm LIBERTAS AVGVSTA holding pileus S-C RIC 100.jpg
    RI Claudius 41-54 Ae As 28mm LIBERTAS AVGVSTA holding pileus S-C RIC 100
     
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