a morbid, but important, subject

This thread was inspired by the "Any other wives..." posting. I didn't want to hijack it, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

I recently crafted a roughly 5-page document on selling coins. I sealed it in my safe along with my coins. Why? I want my family to be able to dispose of my collection in the manner of their choosing, without getting ripped off, should my demise occur in a manner inconsistent with my choosing.

Ugh.

I know. It's hard. I hate to get personal on the forums, but within the past couple of years I lost a younger brother to a very unfortunate accidental death. I always knew I could go at any time, but this made it very real for me.

Providing for the loved ones is a huge priority for me. If something should happen to me, they should know how to dispose of my collection/accumulation.

I created a fairly comprehensive document, hopefully to be added to fairly continuously, that provides an outline of the basics of coins, and how to determine their worth. That way, if there are no collectors among them (there aren't right now), they will know what a fair value is.

I just wanted to get this out there, to encourage other collectors to either write a will ( I haven't yet -- my stuff will go to my wife pretty much automatically, via the state laws, but that's no excuse) or to create some kind of document to tell their loved ones how to deal with a coin collection about which they know nothing.

Basically, it outlines how to roughly grade coins (mine are mostly graded), how to deal with slabs, how to deal with bulk coins not individually graded, where to find price guides, and where to find people that can act as a resource. I also threw in a few personal notes about why I started collecting, etc., but this is just my sentimental side peeking through the realistic side.

It really pains me to write this, so I'm going to stop now, but I'll try to address any questions.

Guys/gals....this really is important. Please take a couple of hours and do this, if you care about the disposition of your collection.

Thanks for listening.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'm glad you brought up this topic. Thanks !

I suppose there are many reasons people procrastinate on things. Fear and discomfort are top reasons. Perhaps that is why so few people have wills; folks find it uncomfortable facing their fear of death.

Both my parents had wills. I was the executor when they passed, so I know how important it is.

Yes, my wife and I both have wills and the kids know where they are. We even read them with the kids (our youngest is 20). And they all know how to deal with the coins.

You really did an Act of Love for your loved ones by writing that document. I suppose it was a bit difficult.

 

Borgovan, sorry to hear about your brother. Up until a year ago, I never kept any notes on my collection. I have since tried to go back and document everything I purchased and for how much. Fortunately, I save all my receipts, so pricing my stuff wasn't that hard, but there was still alot of it that is unpriced as to what I paid. I am now trying to keep better notes on dates and places of purchase and prices, etc. Your message has encouraged me to start to leave detailed instructions in case of an untimely departure. Thanks again for sharing your story and sorry for your loss.

 

This is actually a very interesting concept that I hadn't thought of before. Sure, I've had a will for many years because my job is inherently dangerous and I want to look after those left behind. I've documented every coin in my collection with as much info about the coins as I could think of. But, I have to admit, I've never thought about leaving instructions on how to determine price and list resources that could help in passing along a collection. I think I may just spend some time doing this tomorrow. This has been the best idea I've heard in relation to the hobby in quite some time.
Guy~

 

Borgovan -- thanks so much! I have been thinking about posting here encouraging others to do the same thing. I have a family member who was been stressed about the coin collection she inherited from her husband and his father. She knows nothing about the collection: what pieces are valuable and what pieces were for fun, was the collection a hobby or an investment, etc.

Everyone else, please, please do something like Borgovan or at least talk to a family member or two and give them a heads-up. It might be "talk to Bob at the coin club about what to do with the collection" or "there's real money in the mercury dimes, but the rolls are 'spares.'"

Kudos, dude! You're taking care of your family, there.

 

Great idea! It really makes you think!!

 

Sorry to hear of the loss of your brother. Great post, great idea. TC

 

Can you please post a link to the file/document? It could help those of us who would not take the time otherwise.

 

it might be a good idea to also give them your login details for the forums that you are a member of along with a list of users that you would trust to help them if they had any questions.

Speedy

 

Noost: I'll consider posting a copy of the document here. I may strip it of some of the personal information I've included, but I think I can work something out.

Speedy: Excellent idea. Login information would be handy. That way, advice could be solicited, as well as having the additional benefit of being able to notify the forums. In the letter, I did already direct them to the coin club to which I belong for in-person help.

 

Borgovan - Thanks for broaching a subject we all try NOT to think about. I looked at this last year and found a good starting point. Heritage Auctions sent me a paperback - it was free - entitled The Collectors Handbook. I spent several days annotating a copy and it is stored in my safe alongside the coin boxes. I'm not advertising for or endorsing Heritage; however it gave me an outline and "checklist" to make sure I coverred all those questions we all share. I am retired and my circle of family and friends has started to shrink with each passing year. It seemed the right thing to do.

 

Borgovan, I find it quite ironic that you posted this, as I ways contemplating posting a reply to the original thread you mentioned using a similar theme. I actually started typing, but stopped, because I couldn't get over the morbidity (word?) of the thread. I commend you on bringing this topic to light, as it is a topic that all serious and semi-serious collectors should ponder.

 

I agree and thanks for this post. I have putting together a In Case I Die file for my wife so she knows about the insurance, assets my collections value etc. These are wise words if you as the collector plan on not ever selling your coins. You never know what your wife and kids may have to do with it after you are gone. The last thing I want is for them to be taken advantage by someone because they are not educated.

 

I need to do the same. First I have to inventory more of them so my wife knows how much they are actually worth.

 

Add me to the list of people who would like a (sanitized) copy. And, with your permission, i'd like to make it a topic of a talk :secret: that I could give to my local coin club.

 

I have a detailed book as well. I have also left log in details for my family to let my friends here know that I have gone to a better place..to shake the hand's of the many that grace our older Paper Money.

I have also set up a Living Will and a Last Will and Testament.

Do not want the Gov putting their grubby paws on my Paper Money Collection!!

Nuff said!!

RickieB

 

Good idea. Not sure where you would post that info, but if just here for even a short time, I'm sure we could all use that. I'll copy it if you do post it for sure.
On all my safe deposit boxes I have not only my Son's name, but his Wife's name also. This in my state allows anyone who's name is listed to access that box. I also do have a copy of my will in each one.
HOWEVER, my experience with my Son is he has very little to even less knowledge of coins. Same with his wife and there really isn't anyone else. Hate to say this but my Son is rather irrisponsible although he owns his own buisness.
I'd really like a document like your in each safe due to without it, my Son and/or his Wife would probably approach a coin store for a price for the entire collection.
A really horrible example of relatives with little knowledge of what you own is a neighbor where I used to live was a really big gun collector. He had many WW2 guns worth thousands and thousands. Also, reloading equipment, ammon, shells, cleaning equipment and on and on and on. He passed away and his relatives called a gun store. They sent a representative over, he offered $1,000 for everything and they took it. Very possibly hundreds of thousands worth and all for $1,000.

 

I too have a detailed list of what, where from and how much about every single coin I purchase, and I keep as much invoices as I can. I have also a personnal arrangement with a friend of mine, quite a connoisseur on the subject of coin collecting, in which the one surviving has to help the widow on what to do with the collection. It HAS to be a trusted friend, of course, and the remaining problem is : what will the second widow do ?

Q

 

Okay, guys/gals. Due to some requests, I will publish my letter here. I have removed certain portions of it, and replaced those with a note that says: REDACTED. Those are things I didn't think people needed to know, or may vary from person to person.

If you're going to use this as a template, fine. You will need to heavily edit it to fit your style and your feelings about coins. I have offered my opinions, information I've observed in the marketplace, but those are only applicable to my situation and what I've seen.

I do plan to add one section specifically about Jefferson nickels, since that's what I currently collect a lot of. I recommend, too, that any coins that may fall outside of the categories I have here, or any coins you hold a large quantity of, that you include a special section to address those coins.

In any case, for better or worse, here ya go:

DISPOSING OF COINS​

Introduction:

(REDACTED - this was just some personal stuff about me and my background)

WARNING: Never clean coins! Some of these may look dirty, and some of them may look shiny, but please resist the urge to make the dirty ones look shiny. Collectors prize originality above all else, and original coins will trade at normal prices. Cleaned coins, or coins tampered with in any way, sell for deep discounts. Do not polish, scrub, dip, or alter any of these coins in any way. If you’ve already cleaned them, you should’ve read this paper first, and you’ve cheated yourself out of some cash.

Somewhere, you should find a printed guide of roughly what I’ve paid for some of my coins. It might be saved on my computer as a database or spreadsheet. In general, I’m a huge cheapskate. I pick up deals whenever I can get them. What I paid is not a good indicator of current value. While I rarely bought coins that I could not immediately sell for a profit, values do go up and down, and what a coin is worth may be drastically more or less than what I paid depending what the market did from the time I wrote this.

Currently, dealers use a publication called the “grey sheet” to determine value for most coins. The real title is the “Coin Dealer Newsletter”, but nobody calls it that (currently www.greysheet.com). The greysheet is supposed to represent dealer-to-dealer wholesale prices for coins. Most dealers (myself included) buy coins for less than greysheet bid prices, and sell coins for more than greysheet bid prices. With each type of coin, I’ll try to tell you where the prices should be in relation to greysheet. When I purchased collections, I usually paid around (REDACTED) less than greysheet. I tried to sell coins at or above greysheet. I should have greysheets laying around somewhere. Try to use one that’s current. If you can’t find a current one, I suggest ordering one from the website, or buying a recent used one from a dealer.





Proof sets and mint sets, and modern commemorative coins

You can recognize proof and mint sets pretty easily. Most proof sets will be in a hard plastic case, or in the case of earlier sets, in a flat envelope. Proof coins are very shiny and have a mirrored background. Uncirculated sets (also known as mint sets) look just like regular circulating coins; they just look “brand new.” They are found in flat envelopes, usually with two or three mylar envelopes of coins inside.

Proof sets and mint sets are easy to determine the value. They are listed in the greysheet. Most dealers buy these well below greysheet prices. Any proof or mint set sets 1954 and after, you should try to get about 20-30 percent less than graysheet. So, if a proof set is $10 greysheet bid, you should be able to get $7-$8 for it. That’s really a fair price, because these things are common and are all over the place.

Really, the same thing goes for most modern commemorative coins (1982 and later). These will be either individual coins, or in sets of two or three, of coinage types that were never meant to circulate. They can be either proof or uncirculated, or even special finishes, like matte proof, or satin finish. These will typically be in fancy little packages, with an outer box or two, and a certificate of authenticity inside telling you exactly what the coin is. With this information (or, if the COA is not present, just by using the year and the picture of the event on the coin), there is a section on the greysheet for modern commemorative coins (again, 1982 and later.) You can expect 20-30% below bid for these. Sometimes you can get a better deal, so it pays to shop around a little.

Individual coin grades

Coins are graded on a scale of 1-70, with 1 being just barely identifiable, to 70 being perfect. Here are most of the grades you’ll encounter on my coins:

AG-3: About-good
G-4: Good
VG-8: Very good
F-12: Fine
VF-20: Very fine
EF-40 (or XF-40): Extremely fine
AU-50: Almost uncirculated
MS-60: Uncirculated (MS means mint-state)
MS-63: Choice uncirculated
MS-65: Gem uncirculated
MS-67: Superb uncirculated

There are in-between grades. For instance, a coin that’s better than G-4, but not quite VG-8, might get a G-6 grade from me. For the uncirculated grades (MS-60 to MS-70), they move in increments of 1. So, you really have MS-60, MS-61, MS-62, etc., etc. I just listed the most common ones above.

All of these numbers refer only to surface condition: the level of preservation, the strength of the strike, luster, etc. There are other considerations. Coins can have problems. Common problems are: Being cleaned, being scratched, rim dings/bumps, corrosion, etc. I use a method of grading where I give the “details grade” of the coin (how much detail is left), and I mention any defects separately. If no defects are mentioned, generally there is nothing wrong with the coin. A coin with a problem may trade at a substantial discount. If you are looking at a copper coin that is EF-40, corroded, then you may only get VG-8 or F-12 money for the coin if the corrosion is bad. On the other hand, if you have a great coin with only a minor defect, there will be little to no discount because of the problem.


Slabbed coins

“Slabs” are plastic holders, in which an independent grading company has placed a coin. They examine coins sent to them, give an opinion of the grade, and certify that the coin is genuine. They then put the coin in a plastic holder, include a little piece of paper with information about the coin, and sonically seal the case. Currently, PCGS and NGC are the two most-respected and trusted third-party graders (TPGs.) They do make occasional mistakes, but there’s not much arguing about the coins in one of these slabs. Slabs from ANACS come in 3rd place. I like them, but some people don’t. I also have coins in SEGS slabs (Note I said SEGS, not SGS. SGS (REDACTED).) I’ve found SEGS to be reputable, but they’re not widely accepted. Any slabs other than these, and it’s a real crapshoot. There are some TPGs out there that put any manner of crap in a slab, and suckers fall for it.

Anyway.

You should get standard dealer buy prices for anything in a reputable slab. Like the other stuff, probably 20-30% below bid. Nicer stuff might be 10% below bid. Rare series (sorry…I can’t outline them all here) will actually sell for over bid. Early bust quarters are a good example. Currently in the market they’re trading for 2-4 times greysheet. Don’t know why that is.


Raw coins

Raw coins are coin-industry speak for any coin that is not slabbed. For the most part, any raw coin in my collection is in a tiny white cardboard holder (called a 2x2, or “two by two”), with the date, mintmark, and grade written on it. I grade pretty well, and in fact, quite conservatively. So, if I have AU-50 marked on a 2x2 holder, the coin is not going to be a VF-20 coin, for instance. I can make mistakes like anyone else, but I’ve never been accused of overgrading. I also use the grading method where I point out separately if there is a problem with a coin. See grading section above for more detail. Unlike the slabs, there can be more of a disagreement over grade, but in general they’ll be pretty close. The more common coins may trade at a large discount over greysheet (30-40%), but if you shop around you can find a dealer buy them at about a 20% discount.


Where to sell coins:

This is kind of tough. If I have done business with a dealer enough, I’ll come back here and make notations that so-and-so is pretty trustworthy. If I haven’t done that, there are a few avenues.

You could sell on eBay. You’ll get a good price this way, but it’s time consuming. You have to take good pictures and write up accurate descriptions of what you’re selling. I don’t like this option, because eBay’s fees are pretty high. There are consignment shops that will list stuff on eBay for you, but then you’ve got eBay’s fees, plus the shop’s fees. That’s a pretty big chunk out of the sale amount, but it’s hitting the easy button for you, so your call.

You could sell to a dealer. Most dealers pay a percentage back of greysheet, and may not make considerations for special attributes of a coin (like nice toning, etc.) This may be the best avenue, but it has to be a dealer you trust. Some dealers will make you an offer, but will rescind the offer if you want to try elsewhere. Stay away from this guy. A good dealer will make you an offer, and allow you to shop the competition for a better deal. Once you have 2-3 offers in the same ballpark, you can be reasonably confident that’s the going price. Then you just have to decide whether to take it or not.

You could consign to an auction house. This is a good option with high-end coins. Auctions usually bring high prices (after all, the “winner” of the auction is the person willing to pay the highest price), but auction houses usually take a big chunk; 15-18% or so.

You can take the coins to a coin show. These are advertised all over the internet. There are local shows, state shows, and national shows. There, you will find many dealers, with many people willing to make an offer. Problem is, dealers are often kind of busy, and it will be tough to have them make a good offer if they don’t have the time. If you’ve made arrangements ahead of time, a coin show is a good, secure place to meet a dealer to have coins appraised.

And, as I just mentioned, you can have the coins appraised. If you can’t figure out what they’re worth, or don’t want to take the time, you can get an appraisal for $50-$200 an hour. Some dealers will give a free appraisal. Others will charge, but will waive part or all of the fee if you decide to sell to them. This is a decent route to go if you haven’t already been able to figure out a rough value.

Lastly, I am a member of the Northwest Detroit Coin Club. They meet in the Livonia Senior Center on Farmington Road on the 2nd and 4th Tuesdays of the month, starting at 7:30 p.m. In general, they’re a good bunch of people. If you go to them I think they’ll be willing to help you. This is really the method I recommend, as you’ll probably get the best prices and the most honest help.

NOTE: However you choose to dispose of the coins is up to you. When selling coins to dealers, in general, you can probably expect about 20% behind greysheet as a fair price. If you sell coins to collectors, you can expect to get a price close to greysheet; sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. The tradeoff is that you should be able to sell everything at once to a dealer, but in contrast you will have to break up the collection and sell it piecemeal to collectors. It all depends how much effort you want to put into it.

Bulk coins

I’ve got some raw coins not in 2x2s. There are different categories of these:

Wheat cents: I sort my wheat cents and take out the good stuff. You’re pretty safe considering them to be commons. Try to get about 3 cents apiece for these. You may find them in rolls, or just a bunch of coins thrown into a bag.

Silver coins: I may have scrap silver coins. These will likely be dimes, quarters, and halves all thrown in a container together, although when I get enough of them I roll them up. They will generally be lower grades and common dates. They can be sold in bulk, all at once, if you get a fair price. Three main types to consider: 35%, 40%, 90%. War nickels minted between 1942-1945 (have a large letter over the dome of Monticello on the reverse, a P, D, or S) are 35% silver. Half dollars minted from 1965-1970 are 40% silver. Any dime, quarter, or half dollar minted in 1964 or earlier is 90% silver. Lots of places buy these. The price varies by the price of silver. Look in a Redbook to estimate the value of these. They will have a little table that shows how much silver they contain when the price of silver is at varying levels. Then, call a coin shop and ask “What’s the spot price of silver?” Then, while you have them on the phone, ask what they pay for 90% silver. They will quote you a price as a multiple of face value. For instance, if silver is about $17 an ounce, you may get about 12 times face value for 90% silver. Use the table in the back of the Redbook to see if it’s a good deal. You should get within about 10-15% of the actual silver content value. Lots of places buy this, so call around to a few coin shops to get their prices. Another way is to call a shop, ask what they’re selling 90% scrap silver for, and then ask them what they’re buying it for. The order is important. You should get about a 2x face value difference. For instance, if they’re selling for 14 times face value, they should be buying around 12 times face value. More than 2x face difference is a scam. Less than 2x face difference is good. If you’re getting 12x face (I keep using that, because that’s about what it is as I write this – could be drastically different when you’re reading this), then you’d get $1.20 for a dime, $3.00 for a quarter, $6.00 for a half dollar. Easy.

Conclusion:

That’s about all I have for now. I hope it’s of some help to you. I’ll try to come back and revise this document from time-to-time with new information as it comes up.

Good luck.

 

I have been collecting coins and other art related objects for my kids for over 20 years to leave them something of sorts when I am gone. Borgovon, your topic couldn't have been more right on and timely, we never know when it is our time to go; leaving instructions like these is very helpful for our loved ones to have. How else are they going to fund their trip to Vegas when your gone? :O)

In some homes the head of the household has all the info as to checking accounts, safe deposit boxes, Wills, etc. either in their head or written down in the room no one can seem to find, known as "somewhere." Again, Borgovon, no apologies needed. Good thread!