A magnificent boner coin with an amazing journey!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Only a Poor Old Man, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Only a Poor Old Man

    Only a Poor Old Man Well-Known Member

    Now that the thread title got your attention, let me introduce you to my latest auction win. It is actually my second ever auction win... I have stated before that I prefer the straightforward process of buying retail, considering that auction prices were so high this year. That doesn't mean I don't try, and my last few bidding attempts were quite painful as they didn't even come close to hammer price. My very first auction win a few months back was somewhat accidental as the coin wasn't even a target of mine and I was just trying out to see how bidding works. No complains though as I ended up with a nice aspron trachy that I got for significantly less than the estimate. This time the occasion was rather similar. The coin was not a primary target, but I had decided to keep an eye out for it as it was a type that always interested me. To my surprise it had no bids just a day before the auction closed, and with a few minutes to go, it was only a few pounds over the starting price. I decided to bid, not really hoping to win it (and expecting a barrage of competing last second bids), but to my surprise those last second bids never came and I won the coin for just 75% of the estimate! Well, here it is, in all its glory:

    thasoscombo2.jpg

    As you can see, it is an infamous 'ithyphallic' (not a safe internet search, I will explain the term later) archaic drachm from Thasos. These are not rare, at least not the stater versions. The drachms according to the lot description are scarce, but I have the feeling that this may be the reason it didn't get the attention it deserved as collectors probably prefer the larger staters. I initially thought it was a stater when I first saw it, but thankfully I read the description in time before I bid, otherwise my max bid would have been higher. There is another reason that potentially made some people to shy away form it, and this is that it is a type that gets faked a lot. I was aware of that so I researched it using the usual resources, and it seemed legit. Furthermore, it came with an impressive provenance, but more about that later...

    There is another unique element to this coin and it is its potentially controversial theme. Not long time ago there was a thread here in CoinTalk about an auction description of a coin of this type that included comedic elements which didn't sit well for some. I have to admit that I was surprised back then as I didn't think it would create such a heated debate. But in retrospective, I am kinda glad I saw that thread as otherwise I may have included too many boner jokes in this write up. My personal take is that if we start dictating which subjects are allowed or not to get a comedic/satirical treatment, it could quickly get out of hand. Life can be very cruel and dark, and comedy can be cathartic as long as it is not too crude or willingly offensive.

    But I am not too sure if the theme of the coin was ever intended to glorify sexual violence. I did some research in regards to attitudes to rape in ancient Greece that seem to indicate otherwise. Firstly, rape was downright illegal (at least in Athens). The penalties ranged from a fine all the way to death penalty depending on the circumstances. Sexual violence towards children, married women, or temple virgins were deemed the most serious. The sentences were less harsh for incidents occurring during festivals under the influence of alcohol. Raping of adult males were also considered serious especially if the purpose was to humiliate the victim in question. The Greek word for rape "βιασμος" contains the word "βια" which means violence. It was clear under Greek understanding that rape was not a pleasant or acceptable act. This type of behaviour was considered animalistic and it was regarded as a habit of barbarians. In a chapter of Xenophon's "The Expedition of Cyrus" (Anabasis) the Greek army encounters an Anatolian tribe that fornicates in public plain view, which caused much disgust to the Greeks.

    So one may wonder, why these coins exist then as well the erotic and sometimes bizarre depictions one often finds on ancient Greek vases? A probable answer is entertainment, comedy, titillation, and all of those combined. They did not have pornography or movies back then, so these depictions may were intended as just innocent titillating fun. It is unlikely to be a coincidence that ancient erotica is most commonly found on drinking vessels. It was all part of the fun and carefree attitude one would expect on such occasions. It doesn't then reflect ancient Greek society as a whole, in the same way Hollywood doesn't reflect the real modern world. Imagine if the archaeologists of the future will have no sources to judge America apart from action or erotic movies. Another thing to note is that this was once a Thracian island. Around 650 BC Greeks from Paros founded a colony on Thasos and defeated the local Thracian tribes. It is to be expected that some elements of the old culture remained. The norther one went the more 'carefree' and 'rustic' the local populations were regarded. So maybe this coin really came with the territory.

    SILENOS.jpg
    Silenos performing a balancing act, because he can! - From a Greek vase (Wikimedia Commons)

    So my personal belief is that the nymph and satyr depicted on the coin is just a story, a myth, local folklore, not meant to be taken seriously. The Greeks had deities for all sorts of things, and satyr/nymphs were part of the unadulterated wine cult of Dionysus of all things ecstatic. After all the term nymphomaniac comes from these nymphs with the understanding that they were nothing more than fictional sexualised mythological maidens. They are not real so we should not lose too much sleep on if the the nymph on my coin consented to her imminent coitus with the ithyphallic satyr. And here comes this word again... Surprisingly, some objected to the term in that other thread I mentioned earlier as being too Victorian. It is borrowed from an ancient Greek word that describes a depiction of an erect penis, and personally I find it much more civilised as a term than the crude word 'boner'. I wish youths would adopt using it instead, which is not impossible as it would come back in fashion if it somehow becomes viral. To close on the subject of ancient Greek penises and the meaning behind their depictions, the following extract from a Craig Barker article I found in the 'Greek Reporter' is rather enlightening:

    Source: https://greekreporter.com/2021/05/31/erotic-art-ancient-greece-rome/

    Going back to my coin, it is what it is, a fabulous sample and a marvellous example of archaic art. The level of detail is exquisite for such a small flan. It looks magnificent in hand. Yes, I would probably prefer a big stater, but I have no regrets. The ithyphallic element is not quite that visible, and I am pretty sure the satyr would blame it on the size of the coin. The style reminds me of the lovely archaic statues I saw in the Athens Acropolis new museum. And as a bonus, it is now the older coin in my collection, pushing my Athenian tet to second place.

    fingersatyr.jpg

    And now we come to the provenance of the coin which is equally fascinating. The earliest record of this coin (that I know of) is from the CNG Numismatica Ars Classica Triton I from 1997. Decently old, from a more than decent auction. It was also advertised as being part of the 'Vineyard Collection'. Quite recently there was a discussion in a coin group on Facebook about if there is any point to the colourful yet anonymous provenances in auctions of the type 'from an old English collection' 'from the collection of a dentist' and such.. In this case it is a fitting description as the common theme of that rather large collection was wine. And it is a description that has stuck among auction houses and publications to describe coins from that important source. The original collector may still be alive, so maybe that is why there is no formal name attached to it. I believe some members of this forum have coins from that collection. The biggest surprise though, was yet to come. While I was researching this provenance, I realised that this coin has gone under the hammer 3 times in the last year. First in October 2020 along with other Vineyard coins where it hammered for 500 CHF, and then again this February where it hammered for a whooping £1700. I could hardly believe my eyes... I am not sure what quite happened there, perhaps some of you can explain. Was the coin treated as an investment opportunity rather than a collectible ancient? Did the last owner got buyer' remorse after spending that much on it and put it up for auction again hoping to recover the funds? Either way it did not work out as they hoped as I got it for just £400... I can't help but feel a bit sympathetic to their bad luck... I can only say that the coin found a loving home and I do not plan on re-selling it any time soon...

    Here is a pic of the coin's entry in the Triton I catalogue. While browsing it I noticed our very own @Barry Murphy cited as an auction numismatist. Presumably he may have handled the coin, but I would suspect he is unlikely to remember the occasion. The other thing I noticed while browsing the catalogue was the 10% buyer's fee... Those were the days!

    triton.jpg

    Show me your archaic coins, or any other coins from the vineyard collection.
     
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  3. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Interesting departure, @Only a Poor Old Man. Your observations on ancient Greek law were, well, reassuring....
     
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  4. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Wonderful boner... coin! That really is a stunner:wideyed: and great provenance :cigar:
    My first archaic is a much less detailed and more handled of the type:
    20190326_180928_CDD0DD9E-58A9-48F1-9304-8BE60FCBD1F9-406-000000EF938FEDFB.png
    Thracian Islands, Thasos (c.500-480 B.C.E.), Silver Drachm, 3.4g 16 MM. Naked ithyphallic satyr in a kneeling- running position right, carrying off in his arms a nymph, who wears robes and raises her right hand in protest. Rev. Quadripartite incuse square (BMC 12; SNG Copenhagen 1016).Broad flan


    Here he is without a date on Saturday night:
    20190327_123610_940F5650-EDF7-43FE-99FA-95903CBB716E-469-0000005E8A343BAD.png
    Islands off Thrace. Thasos circa 525-463 BC. Obol AR, 10mm., 0,91g.
    Naked satyr kneeling right / Quadripartite incuse square.
    nearly very fine
    SNG Ashmolean 3653; Rosen 144; Le Rider Thasos Group I & pl. I, 4.



    Here's the most recent boner that I've pulled (remember when that used to mean mistake I've made):
    1684039_1612879092.l-removebg-preview.png


    And I do happen to have a coin from the Vineyard collection:
    1380053_1600340160.l-removebg-preview.png
    EUBOIA. Histiaia. 3rd-2nd centuries BC. Tetrobol (Silver, 15 mm, 2.06 g, 9 h). Vine-wreathed head of nymph Histiaia to right, wearing pendant earring and necklace. Rev. IΣTIAIE-ΩN Nymph seated to right on stern of galley, holding stylis in her left hand and resting her right on the deck; on the side of the stern, wing; below to left, monogram, labrys. ANS 1944.100.24022. BCD Euboia -. Lovely style; well-struck and rather uncommon. Minor die break on reverse, otherwise, very fine.

    From the Vineyard Collection, ex Hirsch, March 2002 ,219 (part of lot). Ex: Nomos

    Hirsch 221 Lot 219.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Lot 455 sold for $725 +10% against a $750 estimate. This series of sales proves the 'any given Sunday' theory of auction performance. I am surprised anyone here was ready yet to post this type considering the ugliness that came last time around. I did not post then but will now show my drachm from the later period design when the non-human nymph has her are abound the non-human satyr who is carrying her off. Satyrs often show tails. Some have hooves but few coins are centered to show either.
    g30960bb2297.jpg

    When I bought my trihemiobol from CNG in 1991, it was identified as being from Lete but more recent listings have moved the type to Thasos. I have not seen the arguments for or against the move.
    g30680bb0479.jpg
     
  6. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    Great write up and coins.
    I do not have this exact coin but I have its cousin.
    upload_2021-6-22_22-59-39.png


    Islands off Thrace. Thasos circa 500-480 BC.
    Diobol AR
    13 mm, 1,08 g
    THRACIA. Thasos. .
    Ca. 500-480 v. Chr. Av.: Ityphallic satyr on his knee to the right. Rev .: Quadripartite incuse square. Le Rider 4, SNG Cop 191-194 (Lete), HGC 6, 333.

    Before joining CT (and a few months after) I had no interest in Greek coins and knew nothing about them. Seeing some of the examples here made me want to read about them ... and buy some. Great artistic work on them + not all of them are expensive sure helps.
     
  7. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Neat coin Only a Poor Man
    There are a number of fatal misconceptions about this coinage. However before tackling the specific imagery on this series one has to first understand how the ancient Greeks viewed their world. Greeks believed that the natural state of the world was chaos. Civilization in the form of cities brought order out of chaos however it was never far from the surface and had to be both feared, respected and guarded against. This bestial state was best represented by the Satyr. Though well muscled and strong he was a totally worthless being, completely useless for any kind of work. Satyrs were considered to be subversive dangerous and cowardly. They were always ready for any form of physical pleasure whether it be wine, music, or the pursuit of women all of which they do to excess. Thus he was a slave to his animalistic nature and was the complete opposite to the Greek ideal of a civilized man who was somebody who did all things in moderation.
    The nymph in Greek mythology is a minor female nature deity, usually associated with a particular place such as a woods or spring. They are usually depicted as beautiful young women who love to sing and dance. They are not immortal though they can be very long lived and can give birth to immortal children should they mate with a god. Satyrs are obsessed with them. Unlike satyrs nymphs have a positive reputation. Both satyrs and nymphs are associated with the worship of Dionysos . He is usually described as a god of wine but he is also the god of chaos, of all forms of unreason and of the unexpected dangers that can only explained as the will of the gods. Any one familiar with " The Bacchae" by Euripides would understand the power of this god.
    Thus it would seem puzzling that a city would chose such a design based on this image. A satyr carrying off a nymph would appear to be the complete opposite of what would be considered to be civilized behavior. It could be an oblique advertisement for the regional wine trade. However the coinage could also emphasize the fact that Thasos was on the edge of the civilized world beyond which only animalistic barbarians live . By advertising the bestial nature of its surroundings Thasos could be celibrating its claim to be civilized and therefor Greek.
    Thasos Ar Stater 480-463 BC Obv. Ithyphaliic satyr in a running kneeling position right carrying a nymph who protesting. Rv. Quadripartite square. Anepigraphic 8.88 grams Rosen 142 Photo by W. Hansen thasos1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Great example with hoof.
     
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  9. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    P.O.M., Great coin & writeup :D!
     
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  10. CoinJockey73

    CoinJockey73 Well-Known Member

    Get a load of them gams!!!
     
  11. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Very nice addition @Only a Poor Old Man! I enjoy collecting Thasos. They have interesting issues, both in the Archaic as the Hellenistic time.

    [​IMG]
    Thrace, Thasos. AR Obol, circa 435-411 B.C.
    Obverse:
    Two dolphins above one another, swimming in opposite directions; pellet above and below.
    Reverse: Quadripartite incuse square.
    Reference: HGC 337. Le Rider, Thasiennes 9.
    0.52g; 9mm

    [​IMG]
    Islands off Thrace, Thasos. AR Hemidrachm. Early 2nd century B.C.
    Obverse:
    Head of bearded Dionysos to right, wearing ivy wreath.
    Reverse: ΘΑΣΙ ΩΝ Club and legend within laurel wreath.
    Reference: Le Rider, Thasiennes 48. SNG Copenhagen 1036. SNG Lockett 1232.
    1.69g; 15mm

    [​IMG]
    Islands off Thrace, Thasos. Æ bronze coin. Circa 168/7-90/80 B.C.
    Obverse:
    Head of bearded Herakles right, wearing lion’s skin headdress
    Reverse: ΘΑΣION. Strung bow within which an amphora above club; monogram below.
    Reference: Le Rider, Thasiennes 56; SNG Copenhagen 1054; HGC 6, 368.
    5.98g; 15mm

    [​IMG]
    Islands off Thrace, Thasos. AR Eighth Stater – Diobol. Circa 500-480 B.C.
    Obverse:
    Satyr running right.
    Reverse: Quadripartite incuse square.
    Reference: SNG Cop-191ff; Le Rider, Thasiennes 4; HGC 6, 333.
    1.03g
     
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    ARCHAIC

    [​IMG]
    Kebren
    AR Obol
    Archaic hd Apollo Left
    - Hd Ram in Incuse sq
    5th C BCE
    7.65mm 0.64g
    SNG Ash 1086
     
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