A BoneDigger Contest -- Opinions and Thoughts

It's been awhile since I held a Bonedigger contest and as usual the prize will be a Morgan (Counterfeit) Silver Dollar. The date and mint-mark on this Oriental beauty is 1890-(S)hanghi. Contest will end March 31st at 12:00 MST. Winner will be announced shortly after that.

What do you have to do to enter? Simply post your current thoughts and opinions on the state of coin collecting today. Good or bad let it rip. Any numismatic subject or current trend within the hobby or business depending on which side of the counter you're on... Winner will be determined by my wife and the more creative the better.

Take Care, Good Luck, and Have Fun
Ben

 

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I not sure if its just me but it would appear that "classic" coin collecting is slowly dying. By this I mean I find it harder to easily find a decent deal without having to pay premium on top of fees for using resources like high end auction houses and dealers to find the quality coins I now desire.

There seems to be more and more fakes, frauds, and out right cheats on the internet that I have totally quit that resource altogether.

I have resolved to only attend coin shows and do my buying there. At least I can view in hand and have an opportunity to haggle if I feel the need.

My love for coins will always be maturing and growing. I toy with the idea of dealing or dabbling in dealing after retirement. I just hope there will be a market for me to fit into. By that I mean a low end market.

Thanks for the contest Bone. Also, thanks for sharing all the pictures of your collection. I love viewing them and maybe one day I will possess some as awesome as yours.

Keep on Collecting!!!

Allen

 

In my view about coin collecting as a Young numismatist, there are too many collectors(or hoarders) that spend WAY too much time worrying about the investment of the coin, rather than the greatness of the coin itself. Because the investment portion of my life has not struck me yet, I find the joy in coin collecting from the history that I learn from it. Never did i know that coin questions would pop up on Jeopardy or the New York Times Crosswords.

Finding a certain collection 'trend' in coins is what is great too. What this causes many collectors to do is to set goals for themselves, and once that goal is achieved, you feel so much better about life that you forget about the monetary value of the coin or monetary antiquity.

So, in my honest opinion, coin collecting is not for those who want to get rich quick. If you want to do that, go rob a bank(not necessarily a good idea though). This fabulous hobby is for those that love challenging themselves into completeing a set, in completing an album, etc. Lastly, if you don't have fun collecting there is no point. When there is no fun, there is no Passion.

Viva Coin Collecting!

Greg

 

The internet has changed the face of coin collecting.

We all have instant access to a world marketplace through the internet. This development has directly contributed to the rise of TPG's. It also has changed some "collectors" who seem to be more interested in the value of their collection, rather than the collection itself. It also spawned despicable scammers that spend their time trying to rip people off with deceptive auctions and advertising.

The internet also gives us a larger community of fellow collectors. We can post our collections online so thousands of people can see the results of our efforts. We can interchange ideas, hints and tips with like minded folks all around the world. Most importantly we can make friends with people who live so far away, we could never hope to meet face to face.

Some good things, some bad things. Overall I have to say the good outweighs the bad. In spite of, or because of the internet, coin collecting is a fun hobby. More importantly it is still the type of hobby I want to pass along to my kids. Just as my Father passed it to me.

Andy

 

A VERY long answer

To effectively understand my thoughts one must go back to the beginning.

In ancient times coin collecting was easy – for those in power. It was called taxation. Send out government goons to collect coins from the squalid masses then pick what you wanted. Simple for an Emperor.

As time progressed coin collecting was still easy. It was called taxation. King, Queens and Nobles sent out government goons to collect coins from the squalid masses. They could pick out what they wanted. Once again simple.

Oridinary people could not afford to collect coins as they were all given up for taxation and the occasional meal.

Ever so slowly this began to change. Some people actually began to make money without being an Emperor, King, Queen or Noble. They could actually afford to set a few prime examples aside – still at the expense of the squalid masses.

Leap forward to more recent times!

“Ordinary” folks began to set aside coins for a “collection”. This seemed to be catching on so Mints started making Proofs. These were stellar examples of coins meant solely for “collectors”.

Now the fires burning! People with a few cents/dollars to spare are setting aside examples for future generations. These people really appreciate the beauty and history behind a coin. The design, the symbolism!

As this “revolution” progresses coin dealers come into play. They not only COLLECT coins but will SELL them at a profit! These are enlightening times but also dark ages. Many of these coins are harshly cleaned to increase “eye appeal”. Many are lacquered to preserve. Many beautiful coins are irreparably damaged at this point.

At this point a lot of Coin Dealers are the only source around. They may have an inherent interest but will doctor a coin in a heartbeat. The information channels are not yet flowing to the increasing number of collectors so the collector takes what he/she can get with very little knowledge. Just a love for coins.

Now let's leap forward past the first days of the Blue Whitman folders but we must mention them. Seems ALL collectors had a Blue Whitman. Usually “pennies”. These could be pulled from circulation to fill the holes.

Next we have two DRASTIC changes! Third Party Grading Services (TPG's) and the internet!

Now serious collectors can have their coins “professionally” graded and encased. Now we can also have “investors” who don't know the first damn thing about coins buying the slab and not the coin!

This is a real blow to the hobby because before you know it EBAY pops up! Now “investors” that know nothing about the hobby can sell coins to the newer, uninformed buyers by touting a piece of plastic with some metal in it.

Now during this period serious collectors have gotten wiser too. More information is available to them. They read, learn how to grade and do research. At this point newbies are a lost cause but the REAL collectors know differently.

Meanwhile, Ebay has grown to a monster! New “self slabbers” appear on a regular basis. “Investors” buy into this only to be disappointed in the long run. Oh yes, it's good for a while but lurking in the shadows are the “real” collectors.

“Real” collectors start to openly question and criticize the TPGs (especially the self slabbers). Now ebay is actually feeling a bit of heat. Seems they are contributing to fraud and people are ACTUALLY questioning it.

Solution? They only “recognize” five services.
Next solution. Hide bidder ID's.
Next soulution? Who knows?

Bottom line is that a monster HAS been created and it's not just ebay or TPGs. It's TV, Media, Internet – name your poison.

On the good side we still have sites like CoinTalk where serious collectors get together, help new collectors and fight the BS.

The hobby will do just fine in the long run.

Clembo

P.S. I reserve the right to edit this post as it's really long!

 

EDIT: Dropped out of contest

 

I agree with everything that's been said here... And that's my opinion.

 

coin collecting is still the hobby of king's in my opinion. not because of high prices of gold and silver but because of the mint. when I started out in the mid 80's the mint was not selling that much. a few annual sets and commeritives. now its out of control so many different kinds of packinging and sets. i like the state quarters and prez dollars and look forward to the 09 cents. but nowadays i am not buying from the mint. I am getting my coins at the banks and searching rolls. I still go to my local coin shop to pick up some older stuff. but the modern stuff is just too much. TPG services seem to be getting out of control too, everyones so greedy stickers on the slabs!!!. i am also amazed people buy coins online,too risky for me. It may still the hobby of kings but at least you will always have some money saved
thanks for the contest

 

bump for some who may not have seen the thread

 

i say why not just make this coin the mascot of BENT. life is tooo short to be taken seriously

 

Back in the 19th century America minted dollars and sent them to China. Back then America was an industrial powerhouse, with a growing economy, and was a self sustaining nation with immigrant workers flocking to America to find plentiful jobs and opportunities to raise their families in prosperity.

But then some got too prosperous, and forgot their roots. Workers got lazy and unproductive, managers got overpaid and lazy too. Owners, stockholders etc. demanded action. And companies started outsourcing jobs to India, China, etc. The government could not sustain itself and depended on foreign, mainly Chinese financing to keep afloat.

So the industrious powerhouse of China now sends dollars to America, even fake ones for the gullible Americans. What comes around goes around.

 

In the early 60's, when I was 12, there were 5 of us, with piggy banks, jars of coins, cigar boxes our folks saved, and our own meager change from our newspaper routes. Then we all decided to put these coins in the blue folders and see what we had. We all got penny, nickle, dime, quarter and 50 cent Whitman folders. On our own we started slowly to fill these books. One day we all met at Marty's house to go through his coins. His dad came in with the largest coin jugs I'd ever seen. And there were plenty of them. (That's when I realized that Marty's family was rich). Well, we all climbed on his bed and his dad poured a "ton" of change in the middle. We started going through the penny's first because that is what kids dealt with then. We mostly filled his Whitmans fairly easily and then went on to put decade dates in piles.
That's when I hit on my first GEM find. I picked up a bright red shiny penny and said: "Hey look at this. There's something wrong with this penny". It was a 1955 doubled die obverse in perfect condition. Well, none of knew anything about coins so I said: "Let's put this on the side for later." I passed it around and everyone touched it and said something about it.
We went on for many days looking through Marty's coins not really knowing what we were doing but loving it just the same.
Later that year I moved away and never found out what happened to that 1955DDO. And I still wonder about our 5 sets of fingerprints we left that day.

What does this have to do with coin collecting today? Well, I hope there are still young boys and girls getting together and pouring through jars and cans and cigar boxes of coins, not for the money, but just for the fun of it.

Bruce

 

Hello everyone, First- I am not very good as to putting words to paper. I can only tell you all how I feel. I am 56 years, never collected coins as a child never had it. As an adult with 3 children to bring up, never had it to save. Feb. 2007 and My husband just short of 5 years started me collecting. We talked about the New George Washington Dollars that came out, He showed me all the coins he saved for reasons of his own ,(I am Hooked). Now I can collect and save my coins. I am proud of my United States coins. I have learned to be proud of the World coins too. The history behind the coins are priceless , What we put on the coins to show the world is also priceless. I have fun collecting and showing my friend the collection. Coin collecting is not fading but expanding, More people are finding coin collecting fun and exciting . I feel the internet has helped me to learn , I know this coin forum has helped me . Cheryl

 

REAL coin collecting has historically been a very small hobby, and still is. What is real? Acquiring and studying old circulation coins and sets just because you like to. I don't think real coin collecting is any smaller or larger than it ever was.

A lot of ALMOST collecting has exploded over the past couple of decades. This includes:

- bullion buying for investment
- buying mint products
- buying slabbed coins without really knowing what's inside

EBAY, the internet in general, direct selling via TV, and US Mint advertising are probably the big growth drivers. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of this, and at least a few of the bullion-mint-slab collectors will probably graduate to become REAL collectors someday.

Since the whole coin arena has grown, it has attracted predators -- because that's where the money is. So it is important to know which type of collector you are and collect within your limits.

 

TTT, weekly bump, LOL...

 

Last bump for now...

 

i am amazed you wont declare your partner , friend, philosopher and guide and the true beleiver in bent the winner. why keep bumping it up

 

i am sorry i menat to say the only believer in BENT

 

Interesting thread, here's my take on it, in many drafts...

The collecting of coins is pretty much in line with the collecting of guns and cartridges, and I believe they all three have followed the same trends through out history.

There is always that segment that collects coins because we enjoy the history, the story, the manufacturing process, the succession of the series and the pure enjoyment of having that coin in our possession. It's mine... I can touch it...

We take care of them, worry about how to handle them, store them away with the up-most care and educate ourselves on how best to preserve them. And we love to share them with friends and family. They might not appreciate our coins, the way we do, but that is Okay. These coins are our pride and joy.

If one of our coins were to suddenly come up missing due to theft, fire or loss, we would mourn it's missing like we would mourn the loss of a cherished family member or extremely close friend. The burn in the pit of our stomach would last for months, or years.

And we can't wait until our next big find. That sleeper that is just waiting to make our day. It fills our dreams at nights and consumes our fantasies. We can't wait till the next big coin show, or a visit with our local coin shop. And when we do find it we can't wait until we can share that story with like minded friends of how that great coin found us.

Then a new person comes along that is just starting to collect coins and is hungry for information. We take them under our wing, whether they are young or along in years, and nurture them, inform them and warn them, until one day they are standing on their own two feet and are starting to teach us new things and showing us new aspects about coin collecting.

Our hearts swell with pride in knowing we have budded a new generation in the field of collecting and hope they will continue to teach generations to come. We want... We hope, that our time was not spent in vain.

To quote Frank Weeler, a guru in the cartridge collecting fraternity, with a twist...

"We the coin people that buy coins and put out good dollars for them, do not really own them but are simply the short term caretakers for a piece of history"

 

wow! thats gonna be tough to beat. very well said Thender