Has anyone here worked on or done a $20 Saint Gaudens set? If so, what would you look for? I would think MS64 or above, slabbed by NGC or PCGS, and one per date, except the expensive ones (meaning 1921, and 1929+). http://coins.www.collectors-society...ets.aspx?CategoryID=22&SetTypeID=488&sets=all
Does anyone have a preference between PCGS and NGC when it comes to Saints? In my limited experience I have a preference and like one more than the other, but both seem close. I do wish I had the newer NGC slabs so I could see the coin edges. Also, I have been surprised at home many of these make the Mint State grade. I would not be surprised if 60% or more graded Saints make the MS grade.
Have owned a few over the years, but I was never much of a set collector. But I'll tell ya this much, you sure better know gold if you try putting one of those sets together.
What An Understatement! I truly appreciate the simplicity of your statement, from one who I respect to have knowledge of this type coin. With the perceived "market grading" by "Top Tier" TPG, difficulty in acquiring many dates in any grade, and the counterfeits produced by others in "top Tier" TPG cases, a "common date" partial set acquisition could be a significant challenge. As I believe we both know, authentic properly graded Double Eagle collection can be an expensive time consuming challenge. :thumb:
A couple of questions. What is "market grading?" Next, please elaborate on the fakes in TPG holders? Thanks.
Hmmmm!, How To Explain. Others are probably more proficient at describing "market grading", but simply stated in laymans' terms, "OVER-GRADING". This process is incomprehensible to most, seemingly ignoring all established logical standards. Quite often the TPG (Third Party Grader) will completely ignore their published standards, "overgrading" by several grades. If you were to review some of my posts you would have seen many examples, but with experience and education I believe you'll learn what to expect. Many deny, and support this process, which is often financially beneficial to sellers. Organizations will tout the benefit of a certified product, selling same at relatively extreme profit, based on the grade awarded and an often fictitious "Price Guide". Uneducated Buyers are normally unaware of their poor investment until trying to liquidate where they are informed of some nebulous standard which subjectively "dictates" appreciable pricing discount for the potential buyer. As I've aforestated, TPG is an acronym or initialism for Third Party Grader. The four currently prevalent TPG (per 11/4/11 CDN report) are the firms with commonly know acronyms or initialisms: NGC, PCGS, ICG, ANACS. There currently are many counterfeit Double Eagle "replicas" being sold throughout the world, encased in copied TPG enclosures. Hopefully your learning process will be less expensive than mine. :thumb:
"Market grading" is a way of assigning a grade in order to try to place a value on a coin, as opposed to grading a coin based strictly on its technical merits. For example, some coins are graded a point or even two points higher than they otherwise would be, due to their beautiful color (and superior eye appeal). Over the past few years, a large number of counterfeit coins in counterfeit third party grading company holders have entered the marketplace. Often, the counterfeiters use/copy actual unique coin ID grading label numbers that the grading companies have previously assigned to genuine coins. So, if you were to look up the coin ID number of one of those counterfeits, on the grading company's website, it would show as being a legitimate ID number for coin such and such. On Ebay, I have seen images of many counterfeit coins in counterfeit PCGS holders, with identical dates, grades and ID numbers to genuine coins sold in Heritage auctions. And it is obvious from the Heritage and EBay images that the coins are different. The Heritage coin is genuine and the EBay coin, counterfeit.
That is spooky about the counterfeit holders. Hopefully it is not common. Is this limited primarily to certain date Saints, or is the warning that there are counterfeit coins of various denominations in these counterfeit slabs, and you are just giving the warning because Saints are such a big financial investment?
I don't know the quantities involved, but I suspect that it is at least in the hundreds, if not thousands. I also don't recall whether I have seen any counterfeit Saints in counterfeit holders. I have seen many Morgan Dollars and some bust coins, however. Unless buyers are expert at grading and counterfeit detection, they are well advised to buy from established sellers with good reputations, rather than unknown/anonymous parties over the internet. If you buy from the former and you end up with a counterfeit, you have a much grater chance of being made whole.
This the rule that everyone needs to always, always remember ! But very few actually practice. When push comes to shove, it's not what you bought that matters. What matters is who you bought it from
Off the top of my head, if I were trying to put a set of these together I think I'd opt for F-Xf. Just something about a circulated gold Piece that speaks to me. Don't matter much though. Ain't gots the "jing" to even approach this endevour......
Very Limited Choices For Many Dates If you try to collect this type coin, I believe you'll find the the choices are very limited for a great number of the dates in this series. I believe that you'll also find a great disparity in grading standards for this type coin. Often I believe you'll find that one firm is more likely to use "market grading", which may result in reduced resale offers. This is a series that you should only purchase certified "sight seen" with an understanding of proper relative grading criteria. I've found that if one wants quality versus name recognition, you may not even be looking at these 2 certifier choices for this type coin. This is a type of coin where you can hardly even locate/afford many dates, much less try to collect them in higher mint state grade. My recommendation is that other the 1908 date NM, 1910, common date 1920's which can be easily acquired in MS-63 (PCGS preferred if comparable to NGC), you acquire that which you can find in best grade condition for the money (preferably any mint state). You'll find numerous under educated individuals who've lost considerable funds investing in this type coin, by being sold, purchasing name recognition, rather than relatively accurate detail graded coins. CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
