1983 Lincoln Error Penny

I'm hoping someone on this Forum can give me some info on this coin. I've attached a merged photo of the head and tail of the coin. the photo accurately depicts the coin with the exception that the copper color is a deeper hue.

The coin was received in change in 1985 or 86. The measurements are normal for a 1983 copper clad penny. It weighs 2.5 grams, the diameter is .750", the thickness is .057". The head of the coin is normal. The tail has a mirror image of the front. The date, lettering, image of Lincoln on the tail are slightly hollowed. Part of the Lincoln Memorial, and lettering that are on the tail can be seen and are in the right areas, but are slightly tilted.The closest error description that I could find to describe the coin is a Brockage error.

I know very little about coins. Can anyone give me info on the error type, and if the coin has any value?

Thanks!

 

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Unfortunatly, it looks like a squeeze job to me. It happens when someone outside the mint take two pennies and puts them in a vice or something. The pressure would make the other pennies image go onto the other. I'm guessing that because of the way Lincoln is facing. I could be wrong though. But that is the best I can explain it. I would keep it though, it is an interesting coin. Do you collect other coins?

Phoenix

 

can also be from a glue job

 

I'm afraid you lost me on " the way Lincoln is facing " Phoenix21. The image on the right is the tail of the coin, the image on the left is the head. If you picked the image on the left up and turned it over and the back of it had nothing on it and was transparent what you would see is the image on the right without the portions that show that are on the tail of the coin on the photo.

I don't really collect coins other than look through change from time to time looking for silver coins, or wheat penny's.

 

I've had 4 or 5 people who are knowledgeable on coins and who collect coins look at it. They all said they thought it came from the mint that way but could not explain how the error was accomplished. They believed it had some value but didn't have any idea on a dollar amount. In fact most were not familiar with error coins.

 

Hello rasputin41 and welcome to Coin Talk. Since the bust of Lincoln on the reverse is sunken in, it is more than likely a squeeze job. If it were raised, you would have something to ponder. Sorry, my opinion is post mint.

Michael

 

Thanks for you opinion Michael. I'll take all the opinions I can get. I and others have been researching this for a couple of months now. Here are some things from sites that have to do with Brockage errors:

brockage refers to a type of error coin in which a side of the coin has both the normal image and a mirror image of the opposite side impressed on it. This is caused by an already minted coin sticking to a die and impressing onto another coin.

Much has been written about how Brockages happen. Suffice it to say that a Brockage will have the same picture and wording on both sides, but on one of those sides, everything is backwards. Also, everything is 'set in' to the coin surface, instead of raised).

So according to this the areas will be slightly hollowed. There is also a Brockage known as a Partial Brockage.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

I'm talking about the image on the reverse. If you took one penny, and put it's face on the reverse on the back of this coin, and squeeze it with a load of pressure, then you will get this. I could be wrong thoug. That was only my opinion. Also the scratches on it look like it came from a vice. But looking at it, I'm not a 100% percent sure. You might have something, but I don't fully know. I'll leave it to the experts here, I'm not that sure. Very nice find though. It is very interesting.

Phoenix

 

If in doubt, you can always take it to a local coin dealer and ask for his opinion. But chances are, all will say it's post mint damage, as in, someone intentionally damaged it so that it looks like it is an error coin, hoping to fool people and sell it at a fat profit. Or alternatively, done it in mischief.

There is no way that such coin could have been made in the mint. Look carefully, you can see the Memorial House UNDER the reversed image of President Lincoln. It does look like it was flattened. How exactly can you explain that it was done in the mint? The coin that you have was struck on top of another coin?

But how? Assume the following. If the first coin was struck 100% perfect and somehow got stuck in between the dies, the second coin cannot be struck perfectly. Alternatively there are two coins got stuck and somehow the first coin got above of the second coin. But how can that happen when planchets are feeded one way - as in, there is only one direction the planchets can get through - that is to get struck and then out, come out as coins. There is no way the Mint has made such bizarre errors unless intentional but most common kind of this "error" coin that you have are squeeze job.

Overall value: 1 cent.

 

I would like to see a close pic of the photo on the right. Is this possible? There are some shelf like devices behind Mr Lincoln that may tell the tale. So before we go any further can we see some more pics?

Thanks,

Michael

 

Coin tail closeup

Heres a closeup of the tail. I've darkened it to bring out more detail. I believe the shelf like devices you refer to are the Lincoln Memorial.

Thanks,

John

 

If this was caused by a die, the lettering and portrait would not be reversed. If it was a clashed die, the devices would be raised, but dies don't clash and leave that much detail either. it is a squeezed coin. Also, if two coins were somehow involved at the mint, they both would not fit in the collar used to make the rim.

 

In a true brockage the double images on one side should be properly aligned, because the "stuck" coin has to be perfectly aligned with the die it is stuck to.

On the other hand, unless a squeeze job is done with extreme care, there will be at least some mis-alignment.

The "wrong" image will be incuse on either a brockage or a squeeze job, because the main difference between them is whether the impression was formed at the mint, or at someone's work bench.

Looking at a cent with X-ray vision would show the bottom of the Memorial as a straight line at about eye level of the Lincoln bust, not skewed several degrees on what I am convinced is a squeezed coin.

 

This is the area that has me most concerned.




This looks more like glue than anything to me. Now since I am going off pictures alone please take this as an idea and not gospel. I would dip the coin in acetone. I know this is safe for other coins but not sure if it will be ok for cents. If anyone knows please say so.
If it is ok it will take the glue off and the mystery will be solved.

Outside of glue I am all out of ideas. Please remember in errors you should always assume you have nothing until you can prove otherwise. Once we exhaust all other possibilities we may come to the realization that you have something genuine! Won't that be cool?

Michael

 

I'm attaching 2 photo's. The areas in black represent parts of the lettering that would be on the tail of the coin. At the top: ONE CENT. At the bottom: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. All of these areas are raised. The area in blue is the Lincoln Memorial. That area is also raised, especially the pillar sections, and the raising continues over into the neck area on LIncoln.

The other photo shows a part of the Lincoln Memorial that is over the date. It is also raised just as it would normally be on a penny.

Another thing the scans don't reveal is that theres no rim on the tail, although it looks as though there might be. What is shown is actually the edge of the coin.

So that by my way of thinking to get this effect the coin would have to be first squeezed, and then glued. This seems to be quite a bit of trouble to go to, and then use the coin for change. After all, it is only a penny.

Thanks to all who have thoughts on this. I much appreciate it.

 

While it may be a glue job, there are some indications that it is a genuine brockage. The weight of the coin is normal. Glue would add some weight. Also, the obverse shows finning of the rim, which is an indicator of increased effective striking pressure. That's something that occurs with a genuine brockage. It's possible that the coin was brockaged by a very thin piece of metal of irregular thickness that was first struck by itself and then struck into the reverse of this coin. The thicker parts of the wafer would have received a strike, while the thinner parts would not have. Thus you'd get a brockage mixed with a strong ghost image of the reverse design. However, if this scenario is correct, the high point of Lincoln's bust would most likely have been weakly struck. But the brockage shows a crisp incuse design. So I'm not sure right now whether it's genuine or fake. That would require a close examination. Let us know what happens with the acetone dip. If it is genuine, it would be worth several hundred dollars.

 

Every thing I know About the 1983 Penny

I'm adding this info on the 1983 Penny, and purposely didn't include it on my other posts. I hope you all can forgive me for doing this but I felt that it might influence opinions to sway more towards a genuine error coin rather than other possibilities. This is whole the story on the Penny that I know.

First I have the coin in my possession, but I don't own it. I have been told by the owner, and others not to do anything to the coin, not even try to clean it. So I'm afraid the acetone is out.

I have known the owner all of my life and there is absolutely no question in my mind as to his integrity. This is the story he told me on the Penny:

He received the coin in change from something he purchased from a truck vendor who came to the place where he worked, and who sold sandwiches and the like. As he did then, and still does to this day, by habit, he looks at the change he receives on purchases before putting it in his pocket. I've witnessed him doing so many times. He said he noticed it right away. He said that one of his co-workers also received an 1983 Penny on the same day from the vendor that had something wrong with it, but it wasn't the same as the one he had, and couldn't remember exactly what was wrong with it. He also said that he heard that at least 1 other person had received an odd looking Penny that day, but he didn't see it. He thinks this happened in 1985 or 1986, but he isn't certain.

This is pure speculation on our part, yet some of it may have some merit. Anyone who deals in large quantities of change, like stores, normally get coins in rolls. The truck vendor probably did also since he sold alot of things where the owner worked, and probably went to other work places also. So maybe the roll of coins that this Penny came from had other pennys involved in whatever caused the error on this coin, or an even further stretch of speculation would be that all of the pennys in the roll were mint errors that somehow got into circulation.

This, then, is everything I know about the Penny.

 

I'd be happy to evaluate it for you. You need only include return postage/insurance. I am the President of CONECA, the national organization of error collectors. If you want me to look at it just send me an e-mail at mdia1@aol.com. -- Mike Diamond

 

I search about a half million pennies a year and it looks also like a squeeze job to me. Squeeze jobs sometimes are people playing or sometimes just what the penny runs into in a lifetime. I've seen candy squeezes that make you jump out of your socks when you first see them because you feel you have the holy grail of errors. Little bit of water and the beauty is gone. I agree with the others, this looks post mint but not being able to hold it first hand all I can say is I'm basing this off the picture I can see. But if the coin has the potential of being worth several hundred dollars - please do send it to an expert.

Esky

 

Still, it is very impressive IMO. Even if it is an error or not. Tell your friend, nice find! :thumb:

Phoenix