Hi everyone. New to collecting and to the board. I recently purchased a few rolls of uncirculated 1971 S Cents. Seems like almost all of them have some sort of doubling (I am still very unsure of the difference between machine doubling and true doubled die). I have attached some pics and hoping someone can provide some insight with regard to any doubling on them. Thanks so much in advance.
Kind of tough for me to tell, but I know that 1971-S cents were often plagued with machine doubling. As to the difference between machine doubling and a "true" doubled die, I would recommend reading up on sites such as the lincolncentresource.com, doubleddie.com, and coppercoins.com. These are 3 very good sites that clearly explain what a doubled die is. Keep up the hunt!
Thanks for the info. I have checked out the sites you mentioned, but I still don't feel that confident in making the distinction yet. Hopefully with time and practice (and great reference sites :smile) I will learn. To me, some of the coins I have appear to have both machine doubling and doubled die attributes. Hope this isn't a silly question,but is that even possible? Thanks again.
Don't expect to learn the differences overnight...besides, it's better to take your time learning and absorbing as much info as you can, rather than rushing into it all and being overwhelmed. It is certainly possible for a coin to have both machine doubling and a doubled die on the same coin. Here is a link to a thread I posted a while ago with arrows pointing out the differences on a coin. http://www.cointalk.com/t218321/ Good luck and keep up the hunt!
Thanks for the thread link. Great pics. Speaking of photos, would it help to try and distinguish the doubling on the coins if I posted better pictures? This was my first attempt at scanning a coin, so I apologize for the quality.
When posting about doubling, it is always best to post a closeup of the affected area...it would make it a lot easier to determine the cause of the doubling with close-up pictures. Try holding up a loupe or magnifying glass to the area and take a picture through it with a camera.
Not sure these are any better. I will look into getting some better photo equipment. I am trying to conclude if any of these could be 1971S-1DO-001P or 002P or if they are likely machine doubled.
It is neither, but as common, machine doubling damage can cause areas which resemble a portion of the real thing. The 68-S through the 72-S, I have found were quite bad as far as MDD. Your photos were sufficient as the reference points were rather large. You might enjoy this older thread of mine. Welcome to the forum! http://www.cointalk.com/t89221/
Thank you so much for the input. So much to learn, but I am having fun doing it! You noted that the photos had reference points to determine machine doubling. Can you explain what those might be so that I can look for them in the future? In reading your older post, I am even more confused (if that's possible) because my 71's look identical to the photos of your 70's coins, especially on the date. Also are there any known markers for the 71 ddo? Thanks for all the help.
I was being generalized and left out the most important part, sorry. I was talking about the business strike 71-S cent. There were no significant DDO for the business strike ( intended for ciculation), the 3 DDO are found in the 71-S Proof cents. Your cent are business strikes ( especially if they came in rolls). As to the 1971 P, there are several. Go to http://www.coppercoins.com and in the left column, click on search varieties, enter the boxes and submit. You will see a list of possible varieties, but the photo is small. Notice the last line under each description called "marker photos". They may have EDS,MDS,LDS ( early,middle,late die states. Click on those such as this one, and you will see large photos like thishttp://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1971&die_id=1971p1do001&die_state=mds Hope this helps
Thank you once again for the response. Last question on these (I hope), how can you tell the difference between a business strike s and a proof s coin? I purchased these from a coin dealer and they were not in bank rolls as the 1960 rolls I got at the same time. They were in clear coin containers, and were a lot more expensive than the bank rolls as well. Sorry to keep on this....and thanks!!
Some do so by the finish as proofs are usually from polished dies and panchets, but mistakes can be made with well struck unblemished business strikes that resemble proofs. The edge and rim tells best for me. A proof has edge/rim at right angle to each other, very sharp ( top photo, top coin, whereas a business strike will be chamfered ( rounded) so they don't get stuck in machines and coin counters. ( top photo , second coin) I used an older matte proof so the finish wouldn't play a part. Here is a proof edge that you can see the rioght angle better (below)
Thank you so much for the great info. Just when I thought we could move on, I instead took photos of the edges for a few of the cents. They are not rounded, but rather have the angles as you described for a proof strike.
