1953-S Franklin Half FBL - how reliable is PCI?

Online auction completed last night that had a 1953-S Franklin Half in a PCI holder, purportedly with an MS-66 grade and FBL designation by PCI. Winning bid was $1510, which is very significantly below what a PCGS or NGC or even ANACS graded 1953-S FBL at MS 60+ would go for. The photos, as you can guess, are not close enough to verify the grade or FBL designation - link: https://hibid.com/lot/113020538/1953-s-franklin-pci-ms-66-fbl-rarity--60-000-guide/?q=&ref=catalog

The coin clearly is uncirculated and in very nice condition, but probably not warranting a MS-66 grade.

Anyone have some experience dealing with PCI-slabbed coins and can offer opinions on whether a PCI FBL designation could be trusted enough to make essentially a $1500+ blind bid?

 

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I always look at PCI holders the old green 1st generation these are your best bet as to grades that are pretty much on par or actually below grade. As for the slab pictured Only if I had the coin in hand...would I consider a bid period...on it. As the price realized im not seeing it.imho

 

Not familiar at all with PCI, but I do intimately recall the controversy over at PCGS in the infamous Franklin Gradeflation Thread which may (?) have involved a 1953 and certainly the FBL designation was key.

I believe the coin, originally MS-64 with no FBL designation, went up to 66 or 66+ with FBL and the value went up like 30-fold or something like that.

 

Probably not MS66 and probably not FBL either. PCI was just a hair above ACG.

As far as I can tell from what I've seen of PCI, it's going to be overgraded by 2-3 grades if crossed over to NGC or PCGS

https://coinweek.com/people-in-the-...ly-2-million-under-federal-racketeering-laws/

 

Sorry, if the TPG is not the top four then I have no trust in the grader.

 

Normally, I'd agree but after reading that Franklin Gradeflation Thread, I'm not so sure....

 

I'll never understand how someone in the financial services business (she's a "stockbroker" whatever that means today)....could be so unaware of the risks and lousy returns that buying coins or PMs has done unless you bought before 1970.

 

I hope your bid wasn’t the winner. Any coin not graded by NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG should always be purchased as “raw” or ungraded. Not to say these four always get it right, but they all have decent guarantees.
If I were a betting man, I’d guess it would grade as MS63 w/o an FBL designation. And that’s without even looking at the picture.
As John Burgess mentioned above, many non-top tier grading companies will over grade by 2-3 numbers.
Also, when determining FBL, PCGS only looks at the bottom set of lines, whereas NGC requires both sets of bell lines to be “Full” in order to receive the FBL designation.

 

I messed with the images, heck, I can't even see an S but it could be there. As for FBL, it might be and might not.
You won't see it in the reverse image.
Just did a couple auto fixes, cropped and resized this coin.

That should be a flag right there.
Buy the coin, not the holder.
Not smart to buy a coin listed as such.

 

Thanks for the photo enhancements! Even with the listing’s low resolution images, the bell lines look pretty flat at the crack. I think I can safely say there’s no way it would receive an FBL designation from a reputable TPG.

 

Sometimes those pixelated images and reflections through plastic can lose detail and make flat spots where there may be detail but still. . .
You guys have a great day!

 

People make poor judgement calls as they age. I'm dealing with it with my mother currently. Just doesn't understand to not talk to the telemarketers that call her incessantly trying to talk her into things, or the mailings that are clearly scams.
Now you add to that someone that you've met in person, that you think you can trust... it just gets much worse from there.

Just saying my 75 year old mother, that hates technology and computers, is just ill equipped to deal with professional rip off artists running at todays speeds. she's back at the typewriter and checkbook register era still. not everyone is like that, but she feels she needs to talk to everyone that knocks on the door, calls or sends a letter, you'd be surprised how much she spends on stamps to mail in publishers clearing house, which she's never won anything on in 40 years.

 

I get it...dealing with the same stuff with my 86-year old father who has memory problems and is slowing down.

My brother and I now handle the finances.

 

Oh no, I didn't bid on it, lol.

I did some further research on PCI (which stands for "Photo-Certified Coin Institute"). It seems David Lawrence at one time owned PCI (I think he bought it out from Hallmark in 1991), and the early PCI photo-slabbed coins during his tenure were pretty respectable (and even collectible, to a certain degree today). Example:




The early "green" colored borders/lettering slabs with 10-digit numbers (on the reverse side of slab with PCI label) are, from what I read, considered credibly graded slabs and had a moderately successful record for crossovers with PCGS. There are collectors who apparently seek/watch for these early PCI-slabbed coins as they present a good buying opportunity due to reliability of the coin grade, if the seller's price is lowball due to the perceived inferior PCI TPG slab. Example:






PCI changed ownership numerous times, to eventually being owned by Anthony Delluniversita who was sued for fraud, as described in the article weblink in John Burgess' post above.

The gold-colored PCI slabs, and slabs that have green or black borders but don't have the 10-digit numbers, are generally unreliable, according to what I read.

Example of gold-colored PCI slab:





Bottom line: I'm glad I didn't bid on the 1953-S Franklin "FBL", given what I now know about the tumultuous history of PCI ownership and unreliability, and the type of PCI holder the coin was in. I might have had regrets on not bidding had the PCI holder been one of the earlier versions with the 10-digit identifier.

For what it's worth, during my quick research, I ran across a series of "crossover" related articles by Michael Bugeja at the Coin Update website, which you might find of interest if you're interested in submitting 2d or 3d tier TPG slabbed coins for crossover to PCGS. Link to his archive of articles (his earlier articles are crossover-related): http://news.coinupdate.com/author/michaelbugeja/

 

My numismatist and I are the best graders I know. All other TPG's are costly, slow, and sometime inaccurate. If I feel the grade is acceptable, I will buy it pre-slabbed otherwise I can do it myself. Just my opinion.

 

Great point about the difference in how PCGS and NGC grade FBL designations on the Franklin halves. You'd think that auction prices for NGC-graded FBLs would be at least a little higher than PCGS, but apparently not the case for the recorded auctions prices for, example, 1953-S MS-65 FBLs. Example: PCGS 1953-S FBL sold at Heritage Auctions -- one wonders whether NGC would have given the FBL designation due to the dubious full lines in the band above the bottom tier bell lines. https://coins.ha.com/itm/a/1231-5433.s#

 

Great post. My first time using "Best Answer" on CT

 

You guys who collect Franklins....you're aware of the gradeflation problems cited a few years ago ?

 

I was unaware that David Lawrence was an early owner of PCI, but I do know that once PCI was defunct, David Lawrence purchased their holders and created Dominion Grading Service (DGS) which only last a year or two.




As for the coin, there is no way someone could buy a coin that is worth north of $50K in FBL but only worth a few hundred dollars without the FBL designation from a 2nd tier slab and horrible blurry photos that make evaluating the bell lines impossible.