1944 S Jefferson - PMD or something else?

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by phankins11, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    Got to looking at a nickel I picked up at the most recent show cant figure out if this is PMD or if its something else. I would think either Minting Damage or PMD rather than an error, but there seems to be an I in relief laying horizontal and parallel to the top of the T in LIBERTY. Any suggestions, ideas?

    For context here's a full Pic of obverse
    IMG_4362.JPG

    Close ups of area
    A047 - 20160202_115201.jpg
    A048 - 20160202_115222.jpg

    side by side of the T in Liberty with the "horizontal I" outlined
    A049 - 20160202_115228-tile.jpg
     
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  3. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    PMD for sure!
     
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    It looks like post-mint damage to me.

    Chris
     
  5. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    what do yo s'pose the horizontal I is?
     
  6. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

  7. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Are you asking what tool they used to gouge the coin? I can't answer that.
     
  8. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    Uhm :confused:, no, what I'm asking is...there is a raised character that is oriented horizontal to, and runs parallel to the upper cross of the T in LIBERTY...its not a gouge...its in relief and to uniform to be random damage.

    I'm asking what that is?
    A049 - 20160202_115228_edit.jpg
     
  9. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    The gouge is in the T. Whatever made the gouge pushed the metal above the T to form that raised section.
     
  10. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    RLM, you for sure have more experience than I do, so I'm going to lean in favor of what you and Chris are saying with respect to it being PMD, But, I just think that answer is too simple...the raised area is to uniform to be a gouge of the T where metal got pushed up...I don't really see a gouge to begin with. If you look at this pic you can clearly see two "things", the T and whatever's above it...they somewhat separate, and the object above the T is too much like an I or something

    outlineofnickel_nooutline-tile.jpg

    Below is a non messed up T in Liberty (even this coin has an anomaly at the rim in the same place..interesting)
    A050 - 20160202_120446.jpg
     
  11. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I have been looking at your coin since you posted it and thought of different things.
    Reminds me of a coin I saw once.. old like yours. Some type of Shattered Planchet. The I could be some kind of weird Die Break. Not a Cud but related to the Shattered Planchet. Some things are just mysterious.
     
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  12. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Struck through some foreign matter possibly??
     
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  13. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    I'm more inclined to think it was done at the mint. The area has full luster in it...I couldn't catch it on camera but the messed up area even has some toning in it...
     
  14. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps a dropped I from Liberty ? One thing to notice on the silver war nickels is the type. The letters to me look more defined. The serifs sharper , but must admit I agree with most a pmd issue. I will admit we sometimes see things in our mind others say they don't see it. Even though it's plain as day in our minds.
     
  15. phankins11

    phankins11 Well-Known Member

    Well after looking at several other war and non war nickels that I have, I least figured out that what I'm seeing isn't a smaller horizontal I above the T.

    There are differences in the T in LIBERTY on some of these war nickels that I have. Some show serifs on the top side of the cross of the T. Below are pictures of the differences.

    If you look at PCGS coin facts (which is free now WOOT!) their pics of the 1944 D and S show this but none of the others do. ( http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Hierarchy.aspx?c=679&title=Type+2,+Silver+Alloy+(1942-1945) )

    Are there different varieties of T on these, is it die deterioration or a chip (I wouldn't think this because the examples on CoinFacts are MS 67 examples), is it due to a stronger strike? Does anyone know? (@Lehigh96 ?)

    Now I understand what RLM was saying...in my OP pic something hit the upper cross of the T which left a dent, effectively dividing the cross of the T in two. With the accentuated serifs being "separated it looks like one full side of an I laying parallel to the T's cross.

    I'm probably making much ado about nothing here...just found it interesting.

    Coins with the accentuated upper serifs on the cross of the T
    ASWarNickels.jpg


    Coins without the accentuated upper serifs on the cross of the T
    NonASwarNickels.jpg

    A non war nickel for comparison - 1959
    NonWar1959.jpg
     
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