1942 P Proof Jefferson Mule/New Discovery ?

In 1942 there were two types of Jefferson nickels struck .Type 1 the regular alloy and type 2 of silver alloy.
Now there's a WDDR-003 of the 1942 P type 1 nickel struck in copper /nickel. In Wexlers book on Jefferson varieties it's described as below.
Class II +VI Distorted and distended Hub doubling.
Nice extra thickness shows on EPU/ US Of A/and five cents.
Separation lines show on apparent last hubbing
DIE Markers: *** Large die gouge below hair on back collar. Obv.
Diagonal die scratch above and to right of short window; die dot inside left arch. Type I This is considered to be a very rare variety.
Now here's the important part notice the 3 *** above Keep in mind that statement as a die marker.
As I have a 1942 P type II Jefferson proof nickel with that marker in the exact same location , the exact same shape on a type II 1942 P Jefferson nickel.
Please see the images below...
now of course the die markers on the type II reverse are not going to match ,as the reverse is a different reverse than the type I nickel.

I believe that this nickel has the Obv. die of the 1942 P type I and and the rev. of the 1942 P type II.
I also believe that it's a DDO and a DDR on the nickel in question, as doubling can be seen on different letters on both the rev. and obv. of this coin . I am open to all thoughts on this one... as the die marker os a tear drop shaped dot clearly seen by the naked eye on the obv. in the same location of the type I proof nickel. Now a Proof 66 NGC price guide has it at $160. What premium would you add for the Variety if this in deed is a mule coin?

 

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You been summons

 

So you're saying that this coin could have been struck with an obverse die that is seen on the WDDR-003, but instead of being paired with that type 1 reverse die it was also paired with a type 2 reverse as you have shown here?

Just making sure I understand. The obverse die markers for the WDDR-003, a type 1 nickel, also appear on this type 2 nickel, Correct?

Is it out of the realm of possibility that some of the same obverse dies were used on both type 1's and type 2's? I mean that seems to be the case with the 1909 Lincon matte proofs, with and without VDB.

 

Yes correct that the obv.die of the type one 1942 with the dot was paired with the rev. die of a type two. The reasoning for posting both sides of the building is that the other 2 pup's are on the reverse of the WDDO -003. Type 1
And of course they aren't going to be on the type 2 reverse . The major pup is the "dot" or die gouge on Tom's collar.
No to the second part of your question there's no pup's on the rev. of type two .

 

My question is would this be considered a mule?

 

Thanks for clarifying. I have a nasty cold, and am on a lot of cold medicine, so I might be a little loopy.

I dont know if I would consider it a mule. Like I said, could some of the obverse dies be used for both type 1's and type 2's?

Regardless I think it is neat and seems very plausible that yours is infact what you say it is, and even better that it was used on a scarce type 1 variety. It would be interesting to see what others who know more than me think.

Very neat coin

 

Is it out of the realm of possibility that some of the same obverse dies were used on both type 1's and type 2's? I mean that seems to be the case with the 1909 Lincon matte proofs, with and without VDB.

well I believe no it's not as remember this was the early war years of WWll, everything was of value for the war efforts . So pairing type 1 obv. dies to type 2 reverse dies to me would make sense . (29,600) Type 1 proofs struck &(27,600) type 2 proofs were struck.
I personally believe that if the mint had usable obv. dies from the type 1 coins they would of been used until they wore out.

 

I appreciate your input as a variety collector this to me would be a significant find. As what is the survival rate and out of the 27,600 coins were struck with the WDDR-003 Obv die.
That alone would increase the "R" factor of this specimen .

 

Keep in mind, there's a MDO for the Obverse ..
Long day, I found no info on MDO ..

 

Well look at some of the split serifs on the lettering .

 

I would say no (i think) what it IS, is a transitional die variety that YOU discovered!!
Would be considered extremely rare, and is unique, until 1 or more are discovered.
Good eye!
Now you hafta send it to wiles? And hope he has the sand, to attribute it.

 

I'm thinking Wexler as he and Ribar wrote the book on the Jefferson variety nickels

 

Oh for sure. Even if it isnt considered a mule, it is still a great find. And for sure a rarity.

Good eye for catching this as well.

 

Ok, I did some research on this is what I've come up with . Reverse is DDR-001 . As for Obverse, it's match is DDO-003 .

Here's the link .
https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com/listings/cat/15

 

Ok so this coin you're saying has the DDR 001 reverse and the DDO-003 obverse correct?
Then you know what my next question is...... how many are known? And how rare?

 

When it comes to items as such how do you figure out a value? As it would be what someone would be willing to pay.
As for the R factor or URS it would be 1.

 

I am going to look at this a little later, possibly around cervesa imerria

 

Paddy, it's a very compelling argument and it looks to be what you think it is. I never thought to look for mules of the type 1 and type two dies. It makes sense that when the changeover took place to keep using obverse proof dies as long as they were serviceable. It raises the possibility of off metal strikes if the changeover took place while a batch of proofs were in production.

 

This is fact. Here is a link to a 1942 S on a war time planchet with the reverse of 1941:http://www.coin-collecting-guide-for-beginners.com/rare-nickel.html

And here is a link for a 1944 war time nickle struck on a copper nickle planchet: http://mikebyers.com/wartimenickel.html

So off metals exist but Op's coin is evidence that the mint continued using obverse dies used on type 1's to strike type 2's.