1928 Peace dollar Grade??

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by benk1234, Dec 27, 2005.

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  1. benk1234

    benk1234 New Member

    I just bought this coin and was wondering what grade you would give it. The coin has alot better color than the pics show. The reverse has a few small black specs on it.
    Thanks,
    Ben
     

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    benk1234, Dec 27, 2005
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  3. Bonedigger

    Bonedigger New Member

    WOW, that's a beauty :) I'd say XF-40.

    Bone
     
    Bonedigger, Dec 27, 2005
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  4. julzboi661

    julzboi661 New Member

    XF-45.. The obverse is great!
     
    julzboi661, Dec 27, 2005
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  5. quick dog

    quick dog New Member

    Absolutely beautiful. Are there any modern coins that are so beautiful and classic?
     
    quick dog, Dec 27, 2005
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  6. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Au...NICE coin!

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Dec 27, 2005
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  7. Mikjo0

    Mikjo0 Numismatist

    A few dings here and there but nice!
    Mine looks like someone threw rocks at her...that's NOT nice.
     

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    Mikjo0, Dec 27, 2005
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The coin has high XF nearly AU detail, but I do think there are problems with the coin. I think it suffered corrosion, was then cleaned and artificially retoned. I don't know what ya paid for it Ben, but I would return it.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 27, 2005
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  9. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, but I was wondering what made you believe it suffered corrosion? I'm still new to spotting many of the problems with coins, as I'm sure you know.
     
    zaneman, Dec 28, 2005
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  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair enough, on the obverse, full coin pic, look at the area between the I and T in LIBERTY. See how rough that looks when compared to the rest of the coin. The fields and the rim are pitted if you look closely. The blowup of the obverse cuts most of this area off, but it is visible on the full pic.

    On the reverse, full pic, the same problem is there from 9 to 3 o'clock. And again around PEACE. Now look at the blow up of the reverse, look in particular at UNITED, UNUM and the M & R in AMERICA. All of these letters show pitts which typically only results from corrosion. And the fields around the legend are quite rough as well.

    Now for the rest, look at the full pics of both obv & rev. Notice how the color is almost completely uniform - not only in shade of color but in depth of color as well. That very rarely happens with natural toning - I mean almost never.

    So it is my guess that whatever it was that caused the corrosion (probably PVC) was cleaned off and the coin artificially retoned.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 28, 2005
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  11. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    Thanks for the explanation! I can see what you mean now that it has been pointed out. It's a shame that anyone would take a problem coin and doctor it like that.
     
    zaneman, Dec 28, 2005
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  12. quick dog

    quick dog New Member


    What is AU?

    What is PVC?
     
    quick dog, Dec 28, 2005
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  13. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    AU is about uncirculated. Light traces of wear on the coin.

    PVC is polyvinylchloride (-CH2-CHCl-)n people used to (and still do) put their coins in flips containing PVC. It creates a green kind of gunk on the coin, which causes damage, such as pitting, and when removed, often makes the damage more evident.
     
    zaneman, Dec 28, 2005
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  14. quick dog

    quick dog New Member

    Well I'll be dipped. Does anyone actually know the chemical formula of the green corrosion product? There must be some residual acid from the polymerization process or something. Where is that organic chemist who was whining about his homework? I think we have a homework assignment for him. :kewl:

    What's the green stuff?
     
    quick dog, Dec 28, 2005
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  15. walterallen

    walterallen Coin Collector

    Now We're Talking!

    This forum is really turning out to an invaluable resource as well as an educational tool, specially for me!

    Now my first reaction, after reading all this recent talk about not cleaning your coins, was that this coin had been cleaned. I only say that because with signs of wear and such a clean surface and no sign of any original luster I concluded a cleaning of sorts had been performed.

    Would you agree with this observation GDJMSP and or anyone else.

    Would you say that if this coin had not been cleaned it should have some trace of luster or at the least dirt deposites of some kind.

    Don't get me wrong whether this coin has been cleaned or not and thus has lost some of its value for that, I for one still find it to be a very beautiful coin and would love to add it to my collect just the same---if the price were right.
     
    walterallen, Dec 28, 2005
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  16. benk1234

    benk1234 New Member

    I believe the only bad thing about this site is you can not get an accurate picture of alot of the coins you have. Maybe it is just me with the camera I have. But with the coin in hand it looks alot better than the pics. I believe there is a lot of great information to be learned from this site. I take everyones opinion seriously and appreciate the time they spend to give it, but iI also rely on my own thoughts as well.
     
    benk1234, Dec 28, 2005
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    The PVC flips react to light and heat over time and this cause the plasticizers to break down and they are released from the plastic. This is what causes the green stuff. That alone will damage the coins. But during this chenical breakdown hydrochloric acid is also released and this is what actually eats up the coin.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 28, 2005
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  18. zaneman

    zaneman Former Moderator

    If I remember to I'll pull some green stuff off a coin I own, and run it through a mass spec, and let you know what I come up with.
     
    zaneman, Dec 28, 2005
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The luster may still be there. But it isn't readily apparent in the pics, and this may be due to the pics themselves. With luster & coin pics you always have to take this into consideration. Scanners do a lousy job of capturing luster unless you use a few tricks. And some folks have a heck of time capturing luster in a pic with a digital camera.

    But if I viewed this coin in hand and no luster was visible under the toning, then yes I would assume the coin had been over-dipped because there is not enough wear to have removed all the luster. And I say dipped instead of harshly cleaned because there are no real tell tale marks or abrasions like you would get if the coin were cleaned with a soft brush or cloth and cleaning agent.

    But that is why this coin underwent what it did. It is semi-important and worth a few bucks. But nobody in their right mind would buy a badly corroded example - except perhaps as a filler. So in order to maximize the sales price, somebody cleaned this coin and retoned it.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 28, 2005
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  20. quick dog

    quick dog New Member

    Incredible. This thread caused me to review one of my old mineralogy books. I now must post a correction. I stated in another thread that native silver does not occur in nature. It does, but I have not seen naturally occuring native silver. Years ago, I purchased jewelry made from crystalline (0.999 pure) silver, but it was derived from a smelter in Idaho that has been closed for a long time.

    Native silver has been observed in small amounts along the edges of oxidized ore zones and in low-temperature thermal spring deposits. Native silver apparently occurs with native copper in the famous Keeweenaw Peninsula copper deposit of Michigan. I was underground at the White Pine Copper Mine in 1970. I saw lots of copper, but no native silver.

    There are several complex silver-X sulfides, and most are gray or black. However, cerargyrite (AgCl), which I have also seen and collected, is usually colorless or gray, but it apparently can be yellow, green, or brown.

    So I am guessing that the green stuff is massive cerargyrite.

    Which coin holders are PVC? What do they look like? How are they different from other plastic holders? I think that I may have some. Are the clear plastic (three-hole) sheets that we used to put 35-mm slides and photos in PVC?
     
    quick dog, Dec 29, 2005
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  21. benk1234

    benk1234 New Member

    Looking at the coin there is luster on the coin. I am not sure but I would say iot amy ahve been lightly dipped but as far as I can tell there is no guarantee to this either. I will try a few more pics but they probablly won't help. Pictures were taken on a white background and as you see it is not white.
     

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    benk1234, Dec 29, 2005
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