1917 Lincoln Cent

I “lucked” into a 1917 Lincoln cent on eBay. This is the sharpest, clearest strike I have ever seen. Abe even has a complete beard with natural looking individual hairs. I am not a dealer, but I have seen more than a couple Lincolns. The only thing I have to compare it to are 66 & 67 Lincolns (certified NGC/PCGS) from the thirties to the fifties and this coin has so much more detail it is not comparable. One thing that particularly caught my attention was three distinct locks of hair over the top of the ear. Searching Heritage’s picture archives, I found that their 1917’s also have these locks at least on the higher grades (i.e. the ones with the better pictures). However, I cannot find this on any other year – proof or circulation. Does anyone have any elaboration?

I can find 3 minute nicks it. There is nothing truly brown on the coin, but it does have some opalescence. Not bright toning, but it is there. I am not generally a fan of toning, but this one I like. My local dealer is a PCGS rep who does not like slabbed coins (go figure). He says he would give it a 65, but PCGS will not grade it because of the toning. He is truly an expert and tends to grade VERY conservatively probably even by PCGS standards. Another dealer (NGC rep) says he would give it a 66 star. I would consider him knowledgeable, but not an expert. Personally, I do not know how it would be less than 66, but probably red/brown. I think that this coin should be slabbed, but by whom?

I would appreciate anyone's input/advice.

Dick

 

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Welcome to the forum, rlm

 

Welcome to the forum!

I'd love to see the toning.....big fan.

 

The pictures are not really pertinent to either of my questions, but I will post them anyway. Bear in mind that my camera has problems with the coin details and is lost when it comes to true colors. It really has full of nearly full red underlying everywhere.

 

It shouldnt be graded. In fact, it shouldnt even be kept as it is blasphemy to have acoin toned like. So terrible!

I am a kindhearted soul and I wish to help. Just mail it to me and I will take care of it for you.

JOKING lol it is a very nice looking specimen. PCGS oftentimes realize higher auction values, and I am not familar with them not grading because of toning. Has anyone else heard this?
In fact I have seen manymany Ikes, Kennedies, Franklins and Morgans in PCGS Slabs that are nicely toned.

 

Rlm's cents,welcome aboard.That is a very nice 1917 1c. coin you have got there.

Aidan.

 

Did you say PCGS will not grade that coin? I think they should.

 

What I said was my local PCGS rep said tht they would not. I have never personally worked with PCGS

 

Incidenatlly, my guess is that most of you have heard of him, or rather his father. He runs Browns coins as is Brown and Dunn. Except this is the son.

 

Here are your options. First , is the coin red or red / brown. From the pictures I have to lean more to the red / brown. Second , what is grade ? I'd say MS65/66 is a lock. Next , who would give it the better grade and would PCGS grade it ? I see no reason for PCGS not to grade the coin , toned or not. I think it's worth the few extra bucks and send it to PCGS. Even if it comes back as 65 and maybe NGC would give it a 66 I think the coin ends up worth about the same amount if you decide to sell. Sending it elsewhere would be a mistake. Forget ANACS and ICG. There values , when you go to sell have been somewhat disappointing. Good luck.

 

Thst was pretty much my thinking. That is why I took it into him, but he was pretty adament that PCGS would not grade it. I do not hold a candle to his expertise or experience.

 

Did he say why it wouldn't grade? Old cleaning, altered surfaces etc? It looks like a ms-64 Red brown cent to me, and I cannot see any reasons it would not grade besides the apparent haze on the reverse, which may be pvc haze.

 

He said that they would not grade it because PCGS does not grade toned coins. He gave several examples from his experience, but I only remember a set of toned buffaloes. He asked a PCGS grader at a show why they came back in body bags and was told it was due to the toning. "Since toning can be artifically induced...."

 

Dick:
Welcome, and nice coin!
I think that PCGS would grade it, but not very high, they (and NGC) are not big fams of toned coins.
Good luck.

 

if you go to the pcgs forum and post the pic..you may get some help there as some of the principals read the board..they could let you know before you invest the money. very nice coin!

 

I think Zane will be able to let us know if PCGS will grade it or not

Back to the question of will a grading company grade a toned coin.
YES---If the toning is real.
Sometimes its not easy to tell so then more than likely they send it back BodyBagged....
Dark toning might lower the grade whereas bright/pretty toning might help the grade of the coin!

Speedy

 

Here are the comments from the PCGS forum.

 

Thanks for the effort. I assure you that the dealer stated to me that PCGS does not grade toned coins. Since I was not there, I cannot vouch for the PCGS rep's comments. Maybe the key to this whole thing is that the dealer "does not like slabbed coins". He is from the "old school" and feels that every high grade/valuable slabbed coin has been resubmitted to the point of guaranteeing that it has been overgraded.

Incidentally, what does " AT imo.......( severely )" mean?

 

• "AT" = artificial toning, the coloring of a coin by deliberate exposure to heat and/or chemicals.
• "imo" teenybopper texting speak for "in my opinion"