1912-S Grading Help and Identification.

This coin appears to me as a really soft strike with uncirculated details for sure. What is throwing me is the lack of any cartwheel type of luster yet hint of red color is still there. A really old dip?

Where would you grade/value this coin at?

Second question - on the reverse, what type of doubling am I looking at? It is most prominent on the N & T in CENT

Thank you in advance for your comments and insight!

 

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Cropped close up of doubling?

 

What am I missing? Weak strike? What on earth makes you say that? Weak strike = beard is missing - WRONG. Weak strike = wheat lines missing - WRONG. Weak strike = O in ONE is half there - WRONG. Weak strike = full bow tie - grease maybe?. So it is not the strongest strike I have seem, I would still not call it weak. As for your cartwheels, brown coins rarely do well at cartwheels, but it may well have been dipped. As for the grade, I would go 62/63. As for value, $200 - $250 if you can get it certified. Raw, you would be lucky \to get $150.

You will need to get another opinion on the doubling.

 

I guess there are degrees of weakness. Compared to other 12-S coins I have the Obverse details are soft- subdued/not crisp. The Beard and Hair is where it is most evident to me, then the creases in the lapel etc etc. I have brown coins from that decade exhibiting luster however now that I think about it (i'll have to check) no SF coins with that luster. so forget I that comment for now. If I was GSC it would go for $400! lol..

Here are images from PCGS which is what I like to use comparing just hair details, these are either very strong strikes or mine is a weak strike?

PCGS 1912-S AU-55



PCGS 1912-S MS64BN

 

I agree with the reverse being cleaned... The obverse looks nice but it looks like the reverse has had an old cleaning that is retoning.

 

My opinion, AU50, (conserved). VALUE- My opinion, $80 - $100

 

+1

 

Somebody definately experimented by cleaning the reverse. It didn't go so well, so they didn't clean the obverse. UNC details. The reverse is machine doubled.

 

Well, everyone seems to be consistent with grading it AU. I don't think I can shoot the high points to show that there is no or very little wear. I believe MS62/3 details

This is a comparison to an AU55 from the PCGS coinfacts website. I think this show better on why I was saying a soft strike.

Funny/no hilarious!!! how it appears that PCGS oiled the coin for the photo. talk about intentional toning doctoring. sheesh .. Oh its ok if they do it. I forgot.

 

OK. No one else is commenting or noticing. EyeEatWheaties, what color are the obverse and reverse? Are they really that different or is it just the picture that makes them look that way?

 

I think the front was also cleaned - it is more apparent when angling the coin to a light. The toning is very deep and it is just too consistent IMO.. Maybe sat in an album where the reverse was more protected??? who knows - the previous owner doesn't. It came out of Dansco 7103 collection I just got.

 

I have a new camera set up that I was experimenting with last night. After reviewing the photos/settings I noticed the doubling on the reverse and made this thread. They were not shot with the same settings.

okay now, I think I am going to scream! wtf I just pulled it back out and under my desk light - an incandescent (GE Reveal) and it is a completely different shade than what is posted, both sides are very similar. it actually exhibits a fair amount of red I swear it was easier with a point and shoot. These were shot under 5000k CFL's. Gonna run outside for sec BRB.

INteresting!!! actually the coin out in the sun looks much more brown, even at an angle the red is missing and.... there is plenty of luster!... but who looks at their coins outside, whats the point of that? I thought GE Reveal are more of natural light? Yet I am looking at a lot more red here at my desk..

This is crazy!!!

I am waiting for new software to arrive so that I can see the coin on the computer before I click the shutter. Let me try this again under different lighting. I should have thought more before posting. sorry for wasting everyone's time.


Second thought.. Let me see if I can shoot this coin again using the same settings under 3 different type of lights and 2 different angles.



Stay tuned I am on a misssion to learn something

 

There are the points I was trying to make. The background told more something was wrong.

BTW, the reveal is a MORE natural, but still is not the sun and also the brightness also is not the equal of the sun.

 

yes.... thank you very much... I couldn't see the forest - all the trees were in the way!

you aren't kidding about the sun... I just came back in. The GE reveal gave me the "best results" so much for the pros. they were probably only talking about silver and only care about copper. who knows?

I have a fair amount of uploading to do now. I shot With the same camera on tripod - same settings - 2 different angles - 3 different light sources. stayed tuned.




My apologies to everyone who has posted so far. are we learning anything yet? funny how easily the converse has happened. How I can make a coin appear crappy as if it was cleaned... just how do you guys adjust your photos to real life/coin in hand?

 

Nice woodie!

 

Okay.. Testing lighting.

CFL 5000k Tulip - Highly suggested by pros
vs
Natural Sunlight
vs
GE Reveal incandescent.



Natural Sunlight Color Control Photos from an 12mb Olympus point and shoot.
f/8.3
1/320 exposure
ISO 100

Camera Make and Model - Canon 40d

Lens - Nikor 35-70mm

Lens accessories - 1-1/4" Macro Extension tube

Lighting type - Natural Sunlight

Diffusion - None

Tripod/Copy Stand - Tripod

Approx Distance from Coin to Lens. 4 inches

Auto or Manual Focus - manual (extension tubes disable)

f stop - unknown

Shutter Speed - 1/100 sec

ISO - 100

White Balance - Auto

Mirror Lock? - no

Remote shutter release? - no

Tethered? no

Image Format - .jpg

Original Image size - 10mb

Posted Image size - approx 3.5MB

Capture Software - MS Explorer

Editing Software - MS Office Picture Manager

Color Corrected? - no

Date of image - September 17th 2010

Comments: Straight on and Angled photos


​

Camera Make and Model - Canon 40d

Lens - Nikor 35-70mm

Lens accessories - 1-1/4" Macro Extension tube

Lighting type - CFL Tulip 5000k in hood 3 feet above coin

Diffusion - None

Tripod/Copy Stand - Tripod

Approx Distance from Coin to Lens. 4 inches

Auto or Manual Focus - manual (extension tubes disable)

f stop - unknown

Shutter Speed - 1/20 sec

ISO - 800

White Balance - Auto

Mirror Lock? - no

Remote shutter release? - no

Tethered? no

Image Format - .jpg

Original Image size - 10mb

Posted Image size - approx 2.7MB

Capture Software - MS Explorer

Editing Software - MS Office Picture Manager

Color Corrected? - no

Date of image - September 17th 2010

Comments: Straight on and Angled photos






f stop - unknown

Shutter Speed - 1/100 sec

ISO - 400







Camera Make and Model - Canon 40d

Lens - Nikor 35-70mm

Lens accessories - 1-1/4" Macro Extension tube

Lighting type - GE 75watt "reveal" natural incandescent light bulb

Diffusion - None

Tripod/Copy Stand - Tripod

Approx Distance from Coin to Lens. 4 inches

Auto or Manual Focus - manual (extension tubes disable)

f stop - unknown

Shutter Speed - 1/15 sec

ISO - 800

White Balance - Auto

Mirror Lock? - no

Remote shutter release? - no

Tethered? no

Image Format - .jpg

Original Image size - 10mb

Posted Image size - approx 2.6MB

Capture Software - MS Explorer

Editing Software - MS Office Picture Manager

Color Corrected? - no

Date of image - September 17th 2010

Comments: Straight on and Angled photos







f stop - unknown

Shutter Speed - 1/60 sec

ISO - 400

 

Are we still grading this one as AU?

 

You need to set your white balance for each and every light source. Most of your pics are over exposed. You also should not use iso800. The lower the number, the better you will be. Multiple lights are better than one.

I would guess your closest to natural looking (color wise) are 2a and 3a, but they are out of focus. I am not sure what to make of your coin now. The pix in #18 look definitely dipped, but 2a and 3a look natural. If a TPG grades it, I still think they would go MS, but it is going to be a close call.

 

Thank you for the tips rlm this camera has a bracketing feature for the white balance. The ISO setting is automatic, it changed consistently from 800 to 400 (which is the high end/low end limit when using the "P"setting) when the coin reflects more light to the lens right now I have a headache. The coin does exhibit all the above captured characteristics except the one where the coin is red.

The thought occurs to me that we rarely view a coin straight on, then really why should the photo be taken perfectly perpendicular? Certainly the ones taken from an angle are much much more attractive.

I may rethink this whole thing and go towards lenses that have a deeper field focus