1909-S Lincoln cent and 1787 Fugio cent: need opinions The coin auction at Marshall Fields has a couple of coins I'm very interested in, but given the prices, I'd like to get some feedback from you guys on the grades and prices. Pictures are linked below (and are huge). I played with the levels in Photoshop for the Fugio Cent to better show the detail. First, 1909-S Lincoln cent http://homepage.mac.com/ebangeman/coins/1909-s-obv.png http://homepage.mac.com/ebangeman/coins/1909-s-rev.jpg And the 1787 Fugio Cent (4 Cinq. PR) http://homepage.mac.com/ebangeman/coins/fugio-obv.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/ebangeman/coins/fugio-rev.jpg Current bid on the Lincoln is $380, so I'd have to bid at least $400. Fugio is at $415. It's probably one or the other for me. I'm not looking for you guys to advise me on what to do, but would appreciate your feedback on the coin grades and pricing. Thoughts?
IF this coin is a true RED 1909-S, I would give it a MS64 at best. There is some flatness around the ear and hair that bothers me so I am just giving you my gut feeling. Maybe it is a soft strike. Who knows? Lincoln colors are tough to determine if it is the real deal as I have been burnt by dipping and simple olive oil cleaning. Watch out. Ask about any return policy as long as you keep it in this 2x2. Going rate for a true MS64 RED 1909-S (no VDB) is around $425 to $500...depending on eye appeal and how well the mint luster is defined. Can't help you with the other coin...
Midas: thanks for the feedback. It is a legit red, with nice eye appeal. lakebreeze: they have an auction about every other week at the State Street Marshall Fields in Chicago.
I wouldn't buy either one of them without them being in slabs--they just have too much value not to be in slabs--and when they aren't it makes me wonder why?? Speedy
I would be careful when trying to buy key and semi key date coins at auctions. There is always a good chance that they may be fakes. If it is a reputable auction house they may have a return policy.
As I look at the "S" mintmark of this coin more closely, why is the location of it more right than normal? It is almost between the "O" and "9"?? The "S" mintmark should be positioned just to the left of the number "0" of 1909, but more right of the first "9" in 1909. Look again at this "S" mintmark placement. Is it an added mintmark? This isn't right. Now look at this genuine "S" placement from a 1909-S Lincoln cent(from Coin Facts). Remember, the mintmark characteristics of a geniune 1909-S cents are the SAME as for the 1909-S VDB, since they shared a common punch and in some cases, the same obverse dies.: Now tell me what you think...
The mintmark doesn't look right....that is why I try not too buy key dates that are not slabs...unless I can be sure that it is real...if it is raw then I send it in to get graded. Speedy
Midas, your knowledge of Lincolns is greater than mine so I may be wrong, but since the MM was added to the dies after every thing else they (MM's that is) tend to move around some. As long as the shape is correct I don't think that MM location by itself is enough to condemn this coin, but I would take a good hard look at it to be certain it is the proper shape before I bought that coin.
Mint marks can shift left, right, up, and down and still be within the "acceptable" location according to mint policies. MikeDiamond wrote about it in more detail, but I'll be darned if I remember which post Now as to the mint mark itself, my first/gut response is what others have already stated....it is wrong/doctored. Without a professional grading by the top 3...I wouldn't buy it without being able to inspect it in hand.
Thanks for the additional feedback. While inspecting the coin in person, I didn't see anything around the area of the mintmark (marks, etc.) that led me to believe that it was a fake. At this point, I'm leading towards passing on it, but maybe putting in a bid on the Fugio cent.
Just an update: I decided to pass on the Lincoln and the Fugio cent. If the Fugio comes back up for auction at a later date (I don't know if anyone bid on it), I might take a stab at it. The feedback in this thread made me just uncomfortable enough about bidding on the 1909-S that I didn't do it. So thanks everyone for your opinions.
