1885 Trade dollar and 1913 Liberty Head nikel

1885 Trade dollar and 1913 Liberty Head nickel

1) Both are last year of issue for their series

2) Both where issued only as proofs

4) Both have a total mintage of 5 each

Now my question is, is that if they both have equal rarity and historical significance, and with metal prices effecting the price of coins, and the 1913 Liberty Head nickel being the more valuable piece simply because of it's higher publicity as a legendary rarity, how valuable do think the 1885 Trade dollar would be, considering it's a large silver piece, if it had the same amount of publicity and legendary rarity status that the 1913 Liberty Head nickel is given? To simplify it think of both coins grading pf-63 cameo.

 

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$2,100,000

 

That would make it over a million and a half dollars lower than the estimated value of a 1913 Liberty Head nickel of the same grade. The price you quoted is the approximate value of an 1885 Trade dollar as the market is now. So you're saying that if a large silver dollar, a precious metal based coin, with the same level of rarity as a nickel 5 cent piece, a base metal coin, in the same grade, had more publicity as a legendary rare coin, that the base metal coin would be more valuable?

 

For coins like these, the metal value is meaningless. The price comes down to fashion and the whim of a small group of very wealthy people. While the popularity of trade dollars has waxed and waned over the years, the history of the 1913 Nickel is more approachable for the general public, more complete, and in my opinion more interesting than that of the 1885 Dollar. So I believe that absent a Federal seizure the 1913 Nickel will always command a higher price.

 

Assuming all things being equal between the coins, like the backstory, fame, rarity, grade, etc. - the only difference is the coin itself, I say the dollar would fetch spot price of silver more than the nickel at auction. :yes:

 

So if the nickel was worth $4,000,000.00 (estimation) then the trade dollar would be worth $4,000,018.50? (approximately) Ok, I guess that makes sense.

 

Eh, I don't know, I was just trying to have a little fun. For me, these dollar amounts are unimaginable - it's like trying to visualize how big outer space is or something. I do thing you made some very interesting points about what the two coins have in common.

 

i have an anser to that! its infinate!:-D

 

Well that was part of my point. It is kind of interesting though to think about these "What if" scenarios.

 

Isn't there (and shouldn't there continue to be) a greater supply of Trade Dollars (silver dollars tend to be kept in nice condition, especially by crown collectors) than Liberty Nickels in high grades? I think that, coupled with demand being assumed equal, would account for the difference in values.

Also, nickel being harder meant that dies would crack and erode faster, as well as not strike the coins as fully as silver coins.

Edit: Another thing, I'm pretty sure that Trade Dollars weren't legal tender by the last year of issue, so there'd be no logical reason for them to be highly circulated. That would lead to more being in higher grades, as well.

Edit #2: I looked into this more, and the Liberty Nickel wasn't an authorized coin from the US Mint. In essence, it has value beyond the simple numismatic due to a wider audience. Simply: Demand is higher since the story about it being illegal is more widely observed.

 

Well I know that in the case of the 1913 Liberty Head nickel, all are accounted for and share the same mintage as the 1885 trade dollar, 5. So if only 5 of each were minted and all 5 of the 1913 nickels are accounted for, it would be illogical for the 1885 trade dollar, with the same mintage, to be more common. Also if they're only minting five nickels, I'm not sure that die crack and erosion are too much of a worrying factor. A die generally wears after many, many strikes. Certainly more than 5.

 

those are both unbelievably priced coins, AT LEAST 2-3 million dollars each

 

The legal tender status of the trade dollar was repealed in 1876 and reinstated in 1887. So, you're right.

 

well i believe the 1913 v nickle wasent sulposed to get out

 

I think that the 1885 Trade Dollar would far exceed the value of 1913 Liberty Head Nickel and possibly bring somewhere in the neighborhood of $6 to 7 million. There are a number of extremely wealthy collectors that collect Trade Dollars and there would likely be a bidding war between them. Liberty Head Nickels are not as popular a series in my opinion as Trade Dollars. The size of the coins also play a factor because collectors with that amount to spend want a showpiece and a large dollar coin is just easier to see than smaller coins.

 

All I know is , if I had the money to buy one it would be the Trade dollar . Who wouldn't like a large silver coin , that's one of the reasons Morgans are so popular .

 

There's another viewpoint that isn't being considered:

The Trade Dollars are all in the public, and theoretically available. Since two of the nickels are in permanent collections of museums, so the actual circulation of 1913 Liberty nickels is really 3. And two of the three are in "lifer" collections. Of the two in permanent collections, one was actually circulated.

Of the five coins, two were proofs and three were standard strikes. The two in permanent collections are both of the "standard strike" variety, which means there are two proof and one business strike versions of the 1913 Liberty nickel.

By contrast, all five of the 1885 Trade Dollars were proofs.

So, the reality is there are five 1885 Trade Dollar proof strike coins, three 1913 Liberty Nickel business strike coins (of which one is in the Smithsonian and the other is owned by the ANA), and two 1913 Liberty Nickel proof strike coins.

Population potentially available for private collectors:

1885 Proof struck Trade Dollars - 5
1913 Proof struck Liberty Nickels - 2
1913 Business struck Liberty Nickels - 1

 

Reinstated in 1887? Are you sure? Do you know what the legislation was? I think you are thinking of the 1887 law that allowed for their redemption. That law did not restore their legal tender status. As far as I know they did not get their legal tender status back until 1933.

 

Actually, as it turns out, we're both wrong. The Trade dollars' legal tender status was restored by the Coinage Act of 1965.
From Coinworld.com: "Congress revoked the legal tender status of the Trade dollar in 1876, but the coins were struck officially for two more years."
And from pcgs.com: (Taken from "Silver Dollars & Trade Dollars of the United States:A Complete Encyclopedia volume 1 by Q. David Bowers) The Trade Dollar Remonetized (1965)"A little known fact is that the Coinage Act of July 23, 1965, which provided for the production of clad coins, contained this wording (Section 102; italics ours): "All coins and currencies of the United States (including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve banks and national banking associations),regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties, and dues."
Under this act, it seems that trade dollars were given the legal tender status that had been taken away in 1876, although probably no one in Congress was aware of the implication! Similarly, the 1884 and 1885 trade dollars are now legal tender as are, it would seem, all pattern coins."

 

Not really...as light energy reaches the outer bounds of the universe, the unbalance of mass relative to the energy bends the energy back towards the center...thus creating the "illusion" of billions and billions of stars. In fact, many of the stars we see are actually the same stars at different points in time.

...jmho. :too-cool-for:

...but I (we) digress.