1881-S Morgan Toner

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by BadThad, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    What do you think?
     

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  3. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    AT from looking the second and fourth pictures. The first and third make it look like it was dipped and starting to retone, but still the coin has nice details on it. Just my humble opinion.
     
  4. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I didn't even think of an AT, sorry Thad it's a terrible coin!! Just kidding, I thought the dollar looked good and I was even gonna say that I would own it. See what others say.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Some aspects make it look NT and some make it look AT. Tough call on that one based on the pics.

    This is for Leadfoot - here's another one Mike.
     
  6. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    That's an interesting coin, Imo it has characteristics of both artificial and natural toning. My guess is the coin had some light natural toning, and then someone messed with it, from the toning on the reverse it looks like it had been wiped. So after the cleaning, my guess is, the coin then artificially toned, probably from what ever chemicals were used to wipe the coin down, or just improper storage.
     
  7. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    I can say with 100% certainty this coin has not been AT'd. Unless it was AT'd before 1920-30. It's been in the family since then sitting in a box.
     
  8. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    What type of box? And was it wrapped in anything? The coin still has AT characteristics, and it's very possible they happened in the box.

    My guess is still, the coin had some light toning and was wiped, then after the wipe the artificial toning happened. How it happened? No clue. But it's possible it was from improper storage.

    Lol and not to start a 100 page war on toning, but when I say artificial toning characteristics, I mean what isn't considered Market Acceptable toning. There was just a thread where someone wrapped a Morgan in one of those gas station rags, and left it in a box for awhile, and the toning looked similar to your coin.
     
  9. cointime

    cointime New Member

    I would say the coin has natual tonning I have something simular toning like that on a Ms 64 or better coin Morgan. The tonning is not the greatest but it's still a tonned Morgan.

    Frankie Boy
     
  10. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    Since all metals will react to their environments and tone over time, short of launching your coins into space, all coins will tone naturally. Therefore, if a box did that toning, it was natural. To me, the purple and orange suggest this coin sat in a leather or vinyl pouch of some sort for quite a few years.
    Guy~
     
  11. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    NT from the photos it looks to be MS63 or better a very clean cheek too!
     
  12. johnny54321

    johnny54321 aspiring numismatist

    It looks NT to me, and if there is no rub and sufficient luster, I'd go 64 to 65. That is a beautiful coin color wise and lack of hits; but I'm not getting much of a read on how much luster remains
     
  13. raider34

    raider34 Active Member

    Also, Imo this coin is AU. I see wear on the Liberty's hair, the eagle's breast, and wing tips.
     
  14. Ahab

    Ahab Member

    I see the same.:bow:
     
  15. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Is it possible that it was cleaned with some chemical long ago? That toning pattern and color scheme is not typically seen on a Morgan Dollar and bears resemblance to coins that have been dipped and re-toned. The two different photos make the coin look so different, it is extremely difficult to even render an opinion. The first set of photos makes it look NT. The second set makes it look much more suspect.

    I have only ever owned one Morgan Dollar that even remotely resembled your coin. Bronze and sea foam green patina in a somewhat variegated pattern. It was actually a rather attractive coin because of the luster. Here is a photo:

    [​IMG]

    It is often stated that the determining factor of AT is intent. FWIW, I don't think there was any intent involved in the toning of your coin. It was either a result of improper storage or an unintended consequence of a chemical treatment from the distant past. My issue with your coin is the apparent lack of luster. Neither set of photos show luster on an issue that was typically extremely lustrous. However, luster is extremely hard to capture in a photo. Since you have the coin in hand, how would you rate the luster?
     
  16. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Cartwheel, tons of luster in hand.
     
  17. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    Anything is possible, but it's unlikely. Dips usually remove luster in my experience and this coin still cartwheels.
     
  18. Breakdown

    Breakdown Member

    Thad,
    It is a very clean coin from the photos -- cheek is unusually so. If it has booming luster, it does not come across in the photos. All I can add to what the others say is if you are going to try to send it to a TPG, based on the color, I would avoid PCGS.
    Of course, if you're keeping it in the family, then you may have no desire to slab it.
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Only if it's not done properly. There are literally millions of coins with booming luster that have been dipped.
     
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