1879 Morgan - Question

I was taking some photos and came across this question...

Can a coin have striations in the metal as it shows here without the direct assumption that it has been altered (whizzed, cleaned, etc)?
Big Pic for detail

Is there anything that can explain for the surface of this coin except for it being altered?

Any comments are appreciated,
Thanks,
Cris

 

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Whatever doubt is left after looking at the small picture is dispelled by the large one.
Whizzed, possibly with something like a brass barbeque grill brush instead of a steel brush mounted in a rotary drill.

 

Hmmm, thanks satootoko....

Any other takers? Is there any way the following could be metal flow?

'Cause if there isn't, it'll be time to open up the can....

 

I can't see the big pic. Looks blurry and green. From the small pic, I agree that this coin has seen some serious work. Even without the detail, every high point shows marks and breaks. The fields are horrible.
I would guess a brillo pad was used.

 

OK, sounds like me, the coin, and a ton of questions go back to the dealer (figuratively, of course). This was one of the first coins I even bought, and I want to understand a little more.

 

Well look at the bright side. Now you have a better understanding of how coins can be abused. You have also found this site, with many seasoned collectors that are willing to share their knowledge.

 

Yeah, it looks like a DMPL that was not taken care of properly. It would be tough to whizz a coin to look like that.

 

Well I have finally gotten the large pic to show up a little better. It does look like a DMPL, but the scratches still look like a harsh whizzing.

I have snatched this photo and made it a little easier to view.

 

I would have to actually see the coin to be 100% positive. I can only make the assumption based on the photos. The very large photo that was originally attached show lines moving from bottom to top. The lines run through the fields, but only lightly touch the devices. Could be cloth rubbing.

 

Acutally, after taking the coin in to the dealer, and having several pairs of eyes look at it, the consensus opinion is that is cannot be whizzed.

The opinion is that the planchet was shaved prior to minting, or that these are registration marks. To be honest, I don't yet know what that means, but be sure that I will know before the night is over....

None of the hairline scratches go onto the devices, not even the ramp up at the wings or the wreath. It would be physically impossible and altogether impractical to whiz the field, without catching the devices. This was at 60x, a magnification that I do not have the ability to view.

When I see the coin next, it should be in a slab. We decided the best decision was to send it off, along with the other coins the dealer had in their collection that showed these marks.

I will let you all know how it goes....
Thanks for the input!!!

 

Interesting. Personally, I do not believe these marks are the result of any kind of cleaning - although I do not have the specific explanation as to what caused them. I will mention that I have seen perfectly cared for proof pattern coins that exhibited the exact same type of marks in the fields with none of the devices whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the 1859 J-241 pattern half dollar that I use as my avatar exhibited almost the same type of markings and was slabbed as PR64.

 

Planchet filing was a very common practice early on in the mint history. Planchets were filed down to meet the correct weight. These are often referred to as adjustment marks. This practice ended long before the Morgan series. It is possible that GDJMSP is right again. DMPL coins have to be handled very carefully, and it is possible that your coin was not. Which company did you submit the coin to?

 

Given the DMPL explanation, what would account for the marks traveling through the devices - but not appearing in the devices? In other words, some of the marks look to start on one side of a portion of the device and continue on the other side??

 

Soft cloth material does this. GDJMSP is correct on that point. Felt, wash clothes, bedding, or any other soft cloth.
I see a lot of this on Eagles. People have a habit of wiping the coin to remove lint or dust.

I will be surprised if this coin comes back in a slab. Anacs will certainly certify it, but will mention something about these marks. If it is NGC or PCGS, I see this coming back in a body bag. Altered surfaces will be the explanation.

 

Interesting. CohibaCrhis, let us know what happens with this one.

 

It was submitted to NCG.

With the pictures only, I can see the comments and understand. Time will tell...

 

NCG, is that the New Coin Guy? ;-)

 

Yeah, that is typing dyslexia!
NGC.

 

Well please keep us updated.