1878S Morgan - Whizzed,cleaned,polished?

I just purchased a small collection and included in it was this 1878S Morgan. It definitely appears uncirculated but the finish has me concerned. Because I am not as familiar with whizzed, polished, or cleaned coins, I'm hoping for help from the greater minds here. Here's the best description I can give and some large pictures. On both sides, the fields and the design are exactly even in shine. The shine is very highly reflective - no frosting on the designs at all and no cartwheel luster. I'm looking to resell this and I want to represent it as honestly as possible. These are the best pictures we could get - it's not a great camera day.
http://www.bobby131313-trading-assistant-sports-cards-us-coins.com/genericimages/1878Morgan-1.jpg
http://www.bobby131313-trading-assistant-sports-cards-us-coins.com/genericimages/1878Morgan-2.jpg

 

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Hi susan,

What are the dark specks and the dark splotches under the mobcap?

You will want to mention the rim dings in the auction.

 

I'm no expert or nothing...But, it looks like some of the obverse is doubled apparently, especially in the date....It kind of looks fake actually, or it has been plated with chrome?

 

I hadn't considered the possibility of Chrome plating. That is exactly what it looks like - going by other items that I have seen that are plated, not coins. The date doubling and the dark spots on the cap are just results of reflection. The coin is almost like a mirror. We tried scanning to provide better pictures and it came up like a proof (which it isn't), all the fields were black and all the details white - not a true representation at all. Here's the big question: what do you think it's worth with the amount of alteration that apparently has been done to it? I'm thinking $40 with complete disclosure of everything. I hate dealing in problem coins

 

Well...I don't think I would grade that coin as high as an ms-61, but, that's just from looking at the photos, those flower type things in her hair, do not seem to show a whole lot of detail, you gotta figure though, original ms-62 at best, altered though, I think if people bid on this coin, they will stay in the price range of an XF or an AU coin, knowning that it is altered, and I don't believe there is any safe way to take that chrome off, if that is even what it is...

 

The sad thing is, all of the detail that you can't see because of the alteration is there. There are two hairline scratches on the cheek and I think it would have graded MS63 if not for the alteration. These pictures are not the best way to grade this coin - I hope we can get better ones for the auction. That is why I was looking at roughly an AU55 value. With that said, do you still feel that I should stick to an EF/AU value?

 

Well, it all really depends on what they are willing to pay for it, but, myself, I wouldn't take any offers less than an AU price, because as you say, it has ms-63 details, it has just been altered. I think in most cases, people who sale high grade coins that have been cleaned or altered, set the price back at least by one grade, at the least. I was at my local coin shop one day, and was skimming through a book, found a VERY nice unc walking liberty half, further inspection concluded it had a big thumb print on it, that my dealer hadn't noticed, I told him, and the price jumped from 70.00, to 40.00, which is a considerable price decrease, needless to say I gave him 60 bucks for it, just because the details were oh so amazing on this coin, and I could simply just look away from the thumb print, but, ever getting my money back on this coin will only happen when I'm 80.

 

Here's what an original, unaltered, uncirculated 1878-S recently sold for.

LINK

You really shouldn't try to assign a grade to a coin that has been plated. It might cause confusion.

Your pictures show what the coin looks like. Just describe it as altered, probably plated. That way, the buyer knows what to expect, and won't be disappointed.

JMO

 

That's a good opinion. I just weighed the coin. Wouldn't chrome plating alter the weight? In which case, this coin hasn't been plated - now I'm thinking maybe it was polished instead - in which case they did a pretty good job because I can't find any swirls or hairlines.

 

It would add weight, slightly -- but very slightly. I was thinking about a polishing job here, maybe even with a whizzing thrown in to boot. Odd looking coin!

 

It might change the weight. Depends on how thick the plating is. All coins don't weigh exactly the same to begin with.

Highly polished coins can also have a "chrome-like" appearance. Sometimes it can take magnification and a trained eye to spot them. They, however are considered damaged, as well.

 

I'm leaning toward stating that any and all of these things could have been done to this coin. You can't reveal too much, right? It just kills me that someone took what was such a beautiful example of this coin and tampered with it. Sometimes, I just don't know what people are thinking - it's very frustrating.

 

Yep, it's sad. Fortunately, it's a very common coin in mint state, which makes it a little easier to take, but it's still sad.

How's this for a description: "Take an original coin with mint state details. Give it to a scamming coin doctor. Watch the scamming coin doctor take the perfectly good coin, putting it through heaven only knows what -- whether cleaning, polishing, whizzing, dipping, plating or ALL of the above -- and turning a nice original uncirculated piece into a piece...of junk. Here's the result, complete with the picture of Dr. Frankencoin, and all I'll say it that it's heavily doctored in some way and looks totally unnatural."

 

Great description, Ziggy - but I don't know if it would sell the coin

 

I just heard back from the seller - he bought this on eBay and gave me a link to the auction (I'd post it, but I don't think I'm allowed). The auction no. is 3918119921 but the pictures have been deleted. The coin was originally sold as - get this - nickel plated! How stupid do you have to be to nickel-plate a silver coin??????!! I swear that some people are too stupid to breathe! Jeez, this is frustrating.

 

Thanks for the tip, Susan. That's another one I can add to my blocked seller list.

LINK

 

Susan,

I commend you for your attitude. In this day and age with many of the online auction sellers it is nice to hear that some still put their customers ahead of making a dollar.

 

Maybe -- but sometimes, humor and brutal honesty cam go a long way toward making people want to deal with you and sometimes seems to bring in higher bids. Go figure.

 

Quite frankly, that's why I'm looking at putting in our store at a fixed price. I've seen some coins sell for well beyond what they're worth. I don't have a problem with that happening with an unaltered coin - but I want to be able to sleep at night after the sale of this Morgan