I picked these both up today and would really appreciate some help with the following. These are some really big pictures, so click on the bar above them to get the full view: 1878-P 8tf. There is a die clash of Liberty's neck above the eagle's right wing, and of Liberty's cap between the eagle's left wing and the wreath. Also look at the large dots on the wreath, especially to the left of the eagle's right wing. Liberty's neck has the sharp needle. My grade is MS64, maybe 65 1878-P 7/8tf. This is an obvious 7/8tf. Strong variety. Notice the flatness in the eagle's left wing. My grade is MS 63. I know these are varieties, but I'm poor on the exact matching on the types. Can someone please point me to the right source, or share their own knowledge? Feel free to ask any question or request other pictures. Thanks, Michael
VAMWorld.com is the best for I identifying the VAM. Lol, I hate the '78 P, because there's a ton of VAMs. I can't see anything so far that looks like any of the 7/8 tf varieties on the second coin. It's the parallel arrow feathers (PAF), long nock variety.
Woops, don't know how I missed this but, the second coin is the "missing nostril" variety, so that numbers it down.
Yup, missing nostril for sure. LOL, yeah vamworld.com lists so many of the 1978 varieties that I got a bit frustrated with the whole ordeal of figuring out which VAM these met precisely, so I gave up and took a shortcut by posting here. I figured that nobody would mind the pictures.
Alright, the second coin is the 1878 7 tf long nock variety, VAM 84 VAMworld - 1878-P VAMs *It's possible it's the VAM 84a, I can't be sure which one, there pretty much the exact same thing, only the a, has clashed letters, which is really hard to spot in pics. Btw the bar under the first 8, seems to be very weak in your example. But it's definitely either the 84 or 84a.
The photo did not pick up the dash, but it is certainly there without a glass. I'm not sure why the camera didn't pick it up. I do not think that it is the 84a, but most certainly the VAM84. Thanks so much for the help! :smile Would you agree with my grade of MS 63? I mainly say "63" because of the heavy hit above the date, but without it, I would say "64" The first Morgan isn't a VAM 9, is it? I'm sending these off to have PCGS tell me what they think of them, but some knowledge beforehand is always great. You're awesome, thanks!
Not a VAM 9, sorry, that's the one VAM I've got memorized, lol, I've been trying to cherry pick one of those for awhile.
As for the grades, the 8tf looks cleaner then the 7tf. But it's hard to guess from the pics the grade, they show the hits, but the luster looks off. What type of lighting did you use? It looks like florescent lighting, which imo can sometimes make the hits look worse, and the luster look "off".
What about the die crack on the reverse of the second coin? Wouldn't it be used as a marker? I noticed that the 78P VAM 84A has a similar die crack, but on the obverse.?..
The luster is great on both coins. I used diffused fluorescent lighting... a picture booth. I took the shot straight on, but if I had taken it at a slight angle, then I suppose the luster would be represented a little better. I keep a stack of PCGS graded Morgans from MS62 to MS66. The 7tf meets or exceeds the MS63 comparison, and the 8tf meets or exceeds the MS64 comparison. The luster of the 8tf is really close to the luster of my 1880-S MS66, but not quite the same quality coin. Who knows how they will turn out once I send them in for their tombstones. Thanks again!
Then going just from the pics, I would agree. The 8tf looks like a strong 64, and the 7tf has some more hits, but I think it still would make a 63. As for the variety on the 8tf, check the eye, there's a die chip on it, I can't tell from the pics, because of glare, but look for doubling too. Also on the reverse, the left side of the wreath's leaves are smeared, but I can't find anything on VAMworld matching it. There's also doubling all over the place on the reverse.
Thank you. Olympus FE-330 8 megapixel, taken in a photgraphy booth under fluorescent lighting diffused behind white synthetic fabric- macro setting, home-made tripod, and about 3 to 4 inches away from the coin. - yes, small die chip under the eyelid, touching the front of the eye. - doubling on the "M" in "E PLURIBUS UNUM" (10X glass) - die clash below Liberty's bonnet, due to the wreath (naked eye visible) - die clash on the neck (spike),below the chin. Due to the eagle's left wing (naked eye visible) - lots of doubling on the reverse as stated - wreath smear is not post mint damage as far as I can tell Thanks!
I took a second look, my guess is it's VAM 14.1A VAMworld - 1878-P VAM-14.1A The dot next to star near UNUM, the "rough patch" over the M doesn't look as strong as in the VAM example, but it looks like it's there.
Outrageously well done work! The coin has all of the markers of a 14.1A. I really appreciate the effort and time you took to help me out. I'm surprised that there was no mention of the odd sized dots on the wreath and the doubling. I was wondering if this could then be a new VAM, perhaps?
No problem :thumb:. The doubling is mentioned, just not on that page, since the VAM 14.1A is a sub variety of the 14.1, they have the same die characteristics. The main difference is the clash marks, but the doubling is mentioned in 14.1 1878-P VAM-14.1 but the smudge isn't. I'm not really sure why, possibly because it isn't an important characteristic. You never know, it could be a new VAM. You can always post pics on the VAMworld forum, those guys are great over there, and see what they say too.
