1877 Indian Head Fake?

Greetings, all. I was wondering if I could get your opinions on this 1877 IHC that I've been holding on to. It came from my grandfather's estate and it was surprisingly found in a bag full of IHC and wheat pennies. Such a rare piece not to be graded or kept separately.

While examining this coin, I noticed that the 2nd "7" of "1877" is a little lower than the other numbers. Just need to know if I should spare the excitement over a false alarm.





Any and all info would be much appreciated.

 

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fake. The date has been altered.

typically with this date, you would want to verify it by looking at the reverse diagnostics, and the diagnostic is the Ns in One and Cent being weak. These are strong. Although some proof examples have complete Ns, this coin is not a proof. The worst part is that even in this picture it is obvious that this coin has an altered date so it's value as a coin is less than that of a common date IHC.

 

I agree as well. The date has been altered. It looks like both 7's were changed from something else.

 

Welcome mycohopper to the forum!

I am assuming that there was once a photo attached unless Matt and Mike have become paranormal. If you could leave the photo up, it would solicit more comments ( not that they are wrong, I suspect the same), but it might serve as an educational moment for others.

Again welcome!

Jim

 

Ok, after I posted that the photo creeps into view?????? Thanks for the service.

Jim

 

Thanks for the evaluation, everyone.

Little bummed out that it's a fake but I have to admit that it still looks appealing. Oh well, back to sorting through the collection. I might post up a couple more coins that I'm curious about. We'll see how it goes.

 

Yeah, that date looks altered to me. Sorry.

 

nice fake!

Value: a few dollars.
On eBay? Priceless.

 

Oh that’s just mean. Poor misinformed Ebay buyers.

 

Easy to spot fake if you know the N in ONE is "shallow" on the reverse of all 1877s.

 

A real reverse will look like this:

 

Okay, I see now. Thanks for the picture, Leadfoot. What about the obverse? Other than the date, is there anything else that would throw up a red flag? Learning about these fake "weak points" is almost as fun as learning about the authentic pieces

At least I'll know what to stay away from.

 

Although the reverse is somewhat of a give on it being a fake, I still wonder about that date. The last 7 from the photo appears to be over something. Almos like someone added a 7 over a 7 which doesn't make CENTS either. Sure wonder what would happen if you sent it to one of those really off brand TPGS's. Would be funny to see that one in a slab.:smile

 

You'll be able to spot most 1877 fakes by looking carefully at the date and the N on the reverse. The other ones you'll see from time to time are cast fakes that have the date and N correct, but have the typical surfaces (i.e. depressions) of a cast copy.

Between those two types of counterfeits, you'll probably catch more than 95% of the 1877 copies, I'd wager. There are some much more deceptive ones, however, that's why I always suggest that you purchase this commonly-counterfeitted coin slabbed from a first-tier TPG.

 

What I'm surprised no one has mentioned is that it has the wrong obv hub type. I don't think the date has been altered, I think it was struck from a fake die that was hubbed using the wrong type obv and then the date was crudely cut into it. (And the second 7 IS slightly lower on the genuine coins.)

 

Welcome to the forum! Mike is correct please do not forget that proof 1877 IHC's have the strong N and not the shallow N. Just keep it in mind and if in doubt post here for assistance. Check some of them out on heritage.

 

Yep, that's a fake. Those 7's really give it away. The genuine 1877 IHC will have "thicker lower part of the 7's while the last 7 exhibits an almost straight line on it's left side". And on the reverse, any business strike 1877 with a strong N on the reverse ONE is an alteration.
This info comes from the Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection. By Scott A. Travers and John W. Dannreuther. This book has much needed info for the coin collector.

Bruce

 

It is so fake, even I can spot it!

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say "shallow." I see the picture you posted...but the shallowness isn't jumping out to me.

 

Look at the N in one see how from the upper left to lower right the N gets shallower. Now look at the N in cent Look how strong or bold the diagonal N. That is what a bold n looks like. On proof 1877's both N's are bold like the N in cent.