1877 & 1909 S Indian Head Pennies Real or Fake?

Purchased a 1877 and 1909 S Indian Head Penny today from a local coin dealer. G-VG condition. Got a decent deal on them. I looked at various guides to see if these are real or not. Everything looks great, but some of you have better eyes from this stuff than me. Pictures are hard to tell, but anything off with these or do they look real?

 

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Easier to give opinion when pic is taken with coin not in a holder or flip.

 

Comparing pictures of genuine coins, nothing looks off about the 1909-S.

I will need better pics of the 1877, as well as reverse pics to form a solid opinion.

 

Thanks for the feedback. The 1909 S is just in really nice condition for only paying $375. Thought that one would be more...thus questioning the authenticity. Here's a back of the 1877. It's so hard to tell if the weak 'N's have been cleaned to make them appear weak. I don't see any abrasive activity though.

 

Shallow N, date looks okay. I'd say it looks real.

 

PCGS's Coinfacts app claims that there is only one reverse die for the 1877. The denticles near the stem (below the ribbon end) appear to match up correctly. For the obverse, the last feather on the headdress is positioned between the I and C in "America," which is also correct. These findings make me think the coin is genuine.

For the 1909-S, I tried to compare denticles again and noticed that some of the coins in the Coinfacts app exhibited a tiny bump on the denticle immediately to the left of the denticle directly below the mintmark. I think I see that little bump on yours as well, which leads me to think it's genuine too. Definitely wait for other opinions though, as I'm by no means an expert on this series.

Oh, and @Omegaraptor , I'm gonna have to borrow that 1000 post image from you, 'cause I'm closing in on my 1000th.

 

Between this thread and your other one, you've risked a lot of money on really expensive key date coins.... I hope you did well.

I'm not an expert in any of them, but I don't see anything that raises red flags on authenticity.

The 1877 has almost certainly been cleaned or treated at some point. Those surfaces are not natural. The 1909S looks good, though.

 

I'm curious I have a 1909 IHC, about a dozen IHC's. A 1863 AU thaats been posted on CT before. But I'm no means an expert.
Is it just the S mint that's key? (1909)

 

Thanks all for your feedback. I'm sure more opinions will be rolling in, but it seems like most of you agree that they (Lincoln post also) are real. Physics fan, without risk there is no reward. My mom and I use to collect coins together. Between dollars, nickels, quarters, dimes, pennies...these were the last ones in the collection to finish off. She passed and left a little money in her estate. I used some of that to finish off our dream. The quality of of the pennies wasn't important to me, rather that they were real, since it is a lot of money. If they aren't real, this coin dealer would have a thought time staying in business after I was done with them. . 30 years after we started our collecting, it is now done!

 

09-S 309,000 mintage
09-P 14,368,470 mintage
But yes, 09-P's tend to command a higher premium than other so called common dates. (although compared to other common dates IH's - 14 million is a semi low figure)

 

Looks like I need to take my 09-P''s out of the cap bag. I'd think they're in G condition but no "Liberty". Why they're in the crap bag.

 

OP, lets see a close up of the date on the '77 please. If you remove it from the 2X2 ant it has an altered date the dealer can claim you switched coins and keep your money.

Also, I'll be one of many who may suggest you purchase coins like that in TPGS slabs.
One thing I tell new collectors is to agree on a price for a purchase and have the dealer submit the coin to be returned to your address if genuine.

 

Good point and that's why I didn't remove it. Here's a close up (as close as I can get with the equipment I have available to me).

Agreed with the slab. That's all fine and dandy to negotiate a price, but as soon as I'd want it submitted, my price goes up tremendously. Most dealers don't want to lose their license by selling fakes. I'm taking conventional routes to prove they are real...which is my knowledge and all of you experts. We all share a love for coins!

Thanks

 

I'm 13 with near-perfect eyesight and the computer is on maximum brightness, and I can't see all of the first 7.

However, based on the shape of the date, I don't see any red flags to authenticity.
The method I use to date partial-date coins is the 3 S's: size, shape, and spacing.

IHC date groups have different properties in each of these 3 S's. 1876-1878 have similar properties in the date, and this date looks to have the right properties, as well as the last date digit being a legit-looking 7.

I'd say it's not an altered date. N on the reverse looks shallow. I'm 99.9% sure this is a real 1877.

 

Thanks for the look.

 

@Omegaraptor Are you really thirteen? I'll bet you have been to several ANA Summer Seminars already - right?

Based on the date, I'm beginning to like the coin also. Here is a tip for the OP. The base of the bust on this date is micro doubled along its length. I think I see that on your coin.

 

Now that's what I call good eyesight.

 

Omegaraptor all i can say at 13 & your stacking all that lnowledge. GOOD JOB. When I was 13, well I wasnt up to anything good.

 

Nope. Not even a member of ANA. Or LSCC for that matter.

And yes, I am 13.

 

Based on your posts, IMO you are a talented numismatist and already know more than most. You should join LSCC, you would enjoy it.