1864 shield two cent piece with more zinc, and is a rotated die

Here's an 1864 shield two cent piece with more zinc, and is a rotated die.I know these coin were made out of 90 percent copper ,and the remaining alloys tin,and zinc/ The looks of this coin appear to look like 90 percent zinc ,remaining alloys copper ,and tin. The coin also has a rotation of 90 degress Cw I think. I need some help from my numismatic friends two questions
1) do you think the mint messed up with the alloy content , by putting more zinc in the coin?
2 Do you think the rotation is 90 degress CW ?Not Sure


The first picture is of the obverse ,and the second picture is how the coin looks when i flip it over....reverse The third is the rim
Feed back would be appreciated Jazzcoins Joe Help:headbang:

 

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there should be a way to edit your titles

There should be a way to edit the titles. I think this topic came up once before, but since i made a mistake with my title i thought i would bring it up again it would be helpful if there was a way to do it .

Jazzcoins joe:loud:

 

There is a way to edit the title. It took me a while to figure out myself.

Click the Edit button on your original post, then click on the Go Advanced button. On that page you can edit the title. :thumb:

As to this coin, I wonder if ground acidity/mineralization caused the change? I know I have a IHC that is mega underweight because of the ground composition it had been in, so maybe that happened with this? Or maybe someone left it in a "vat" of acid for a period of time?

I've never seen a 2 cent minted on weird stock but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened, it only means I've never seen it. Maybe someone else will pipe in and educate both of us?

Ribbit

 

Thanks for the feedback my friend. encil:I'm kiind of baffled with this coin. I received this from my uncle a couple of years ago and just decided to take it out ,and post it, didn't even know it was a rotated die until yesderday.I know it;s and authentic Rotation and it wasn't alltered The alloy content is the issue here to me. i don't think it's from corrosion , the fields look to good in person.I looked at a couple of 100 percent zinc coins that i have and they look so similar I know between the two errors on this coin rotation snd possible wrong alloy content this coin would be a rare coin. I thank you for your input and thoughts on the coin. Like you said maybe somebody else will look at the threard and educate the both of us.maybe Mike
thanks jazzcoins joe :high5:

 

BTW - what other "zinc" coins are you using as reference?

Ribbit

 

The two coins that I'm using are
1941 20 centimis France zinc
1942 belgium don' t no the denomination on that one but it's zinc

I will try and post a photo of the other two coins with the two cent piece next to one another

Thanks jazzcoins Joe

 

I think its only oxidation. This coin was left in the dirt for quite some time, you see the same emerald green patina on ancient coins. I have an 1897 IHC with the same color, somewhere.

 

First of all thank you for your reply.:bow: If it;s oxidation will the value of the coin decrease substantially? I was thinking to get this slabbed, and send it to ANA or PCGS, because It's also a major Die rotation. Any thoughts on that


Jazzcoins JOE :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

 

ANACS or NCS are the only ones that will possibly slab it, other than the crummy TPG's. As to die rotation, I don't think that will add enough to the value of it if it is just corrosion and not a weird alloy. But I don't know enough about these types of coins to know how rare it is but if they are like others, it isn't that rare.

Ribbit

 

This particular coin is a rare die rotation, because it is a 90 degree rotation CW with a rareity rateing of R1, which means only a 1000 coins in exsistence , and also taking into consideration is the date late 1800 hundreds which makes it rare. I will get this slabbed just to see if it;s wrong stock or oxidation. I think it's worth sending it in ,and thanks toad :high5:for listing the better companys that I should send it into.

Jazzcoins Joe :whistle: :whistle:

 

It is a ground recovery piece.

I have a few, found metal detecting that look like that.

[without the rotated die, of course.]

 

For most series an R-1 rating, which means over a thousand, is considered to be a COMMON coin. And the 1864 date is anything but rare for a two cent piece.

 

How much do you think the coin is worth? .I would say there is demand for this coin, and with only a 1000 specimans in exsistence ,considering how many coin rotated die collecttors are in the world. I would say the coin is pretty rare don't you think

have a great day Jazzcoins:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle: Joe

 

Also, It is the large motto, common.

 

Yes frank your right the large motto are common .but that's not the issue here , I'm concerned about if this is the wrong stock that's why i'm sending it in just to ease ny mind. The way i look at this if there are two errors on this coin ,it will be extremely rare,possible one of a kind.I maybe dreaming this ,but i hope it turns out to be a good dream. because this coin baffles me. I think it's worth finding it out, and it will be slabbed for the rotation error anyway:whistle::whistle:

Jazzcoins Joe
have a great day frank

 

Do you really want to know? I don't believe it is an off-alloy coin. It is a higher detail piece but the apparent corrosion hurts it badly. It is a rotated die but there really aren't that many people interested in such things, and rotated reverse coins for 1864 are fairly common. There is even one variety of 1864 two cent that always comes with a 180 degree rotated reverse. So it tend to be a curiousity and little more. In my personal opinion I think the coin is worth about $12 - $15.

Not really. Consider this, Large cents and bust halves are avidly collected by die variety. There are specialized books on the subject, and even special organizations devoted to them. Yet as a general rule a die variety in either series does not command a special premium until it reached the level of an R-5 rarity or 31 to 75 pieces known. And I would bet that there are more avid large cent and bust half collectors than their are avid rotated die collectors.

 

Well I will give it a shot, and send in to get slabbed anyway just to see. I thank you for your input ,and thoughts on the coin :smile :smile.
Jazzcoins Joe:whistle::whistle:

 

Considering it will cost you to send it in have you taken it to a local coin shop and asked them what they think?

Ribbit

 

I may just do that first before sending it in ,yes I was thinking about doing that. I did that with ny fugio coin ,and the dealer said it was authentic. The trouble with dealers ,some don't even have enough knowledge to determine certain things. I encountered more people on Coin talk that have more knowledge. Well I"ll give it a shot anyway.

Thanks Toad:kewl: Jazzcoins Joe:whistle::whistle: :whistle:

 

I "m going to get a little technical now.I posted three coins . The first coin to your left is a 100 percent zinc coin France, the middle coin is the 1863 two cent piece, and to the far right is also a 100 percent zinc coin belgieum . When you look at all three the coloration doe's look similar correct, or i'm i blind? We also must take into comsideration that the two cent piece has some copper in it ,and some tin, not that much through if it's a wrong stock . What i'm trying to get at here, the two cent piece is going to be a bit of a different shade, because of the little amount of copper an tin in it. What do you think by looking at these three coins still think it may be corroded ( opinions are welcomed of course). THIS IS NOT A TEST

Jazzcoins Joe Still