Hi, I'm new to this one, but I have to find a value for a coin I recently got. Its an Italian 1863 Vittorio Emanuele II 10 Lire Gold PROOF with the King's portrait facing right instead of facing left compared to regular issues. Reverse is also different. I read that such pieces are reported, but I can't seem to find any price indication. Diameter of the piece is 19mm.
Welcome to the forum Vic. That's an interesting problem you have posed. The diameter and obverse are perfect matches for KM#14 (three varieties based on mintmarks), but that's a 2.5g, .900 silver 50 centesimi, which is certainly not the coin in your picture! The reverse design (in various denominations - not including 10 L) appears on several coins, all mated with an obverse showing Umberto I, and dated in the 1880s and '90s. Check your local library and see if they have a copy of the Standard Catalog of World Gold, a companion to the regular Krause catalogs, that may have more detail about your gold coin. Based on the size, my guess is that it contains between 1/3 and 1/2 oz. AGW, so it's worth somewhere around $150-220 simply as bullion.
Thanks Roy, Its even stranger as I just got some information that this could be a very rare piece, i.e. only several proofs minted with different design and in one of the Italian coin catalogues says that this piece has only been reported and showed up in an auction. However, this is an information I got online from a friend, so I don't know the name of the catalogue yet and I'm not sure it is the same piece at all... Hmmmm...
Proof coins of the 1863 10 lire have been reported but not confirmed - and I looked in all my books, including the one satootoko suggested. But not finding a coin in the books does not mean it does not exist or that it is not genuine. I own a couple myself that you won't find in any book. But with this coin I do not think that is the case. I think this coin is a counterfeit that was manufactured in order to try and fool somebody into thinking it is one of the unconfirmed Proofs. My reasons are these - there are minor differences in the obverse design besides the bust facing right. This perhaps I could accept. But the reverse is completely different and one that was not used until 20 yrs later for a different ruler entirely. Sorry - but I do not think this coin is genuine
Thanks all... I will just might as well send it for grading somewhere and see what comes out. It could be possible that it is not a genuine one, but in that case why should anyone sell it to me for the price of the gold content? And this was the case with this coin. I'm satisfied either way, but I haven't heard of fakes of these coins before and this is the first time I see a piece that is supposed to be one. Anyone else heard of fakes of 10 Lire gold?
Not specifically, but most Italian `collector' coins have indeed been counterfeited. I'm with the man with the cowboy hat on this one. Ian
Not to drop further rain on your parade, but have you done a specific gravity test to determine whether the coin is really solid gold?
The proof of KM 9.1 would look exactly the same as the ordinary strike of KM 9.1 excepting for the proof finish otherwise it would have a different KM number. It's that simple. Whatever proof is / has been reported would use the same type. That is, he wouldn't be facing to the right. What you have is a `coin' which purports to have the obverse die of KM 14 with the reverse die of KM 9.1. I just cannot see that as being a genuine coin. There is always the remote possibility of it being an Italian mint `error'. The chances of that being the case are about as remote as finding a hen's tooth. However, if it were genuine it would be worth a small fortune. Well worth the cost of submitting it to the closer scrutiny of an expert in that field...like the Italian Mint or if you want to stick closer to home try PCGS or NGC. I wonder how many `experts' hands it has passed through before arriving with you and your purchase at bullion value(?) . Doesn't seem very probable to me, but stranger things are reported to have happened. Is there a bright star in the east? What on earth is Frankinscence? Hey..anyone heard of Myrrh before lads? ;-) Good luck,.... and if it does turn out to be genuine you will be well able to afford to buy us all a drink or two.
I have to agree with the people who doubt the authenticity of a coin with an unknown obverse and a reverse first used years after the coin's date, and that's why I question the wisdom of sending it to the Italian Mint, without first getting assurances that it will be returned regardless of what their findings are. Remember the "illegal" US gold coins?
Well, I do thank you all guys and I'm thankful for your kind considerations. I'll try last a cpl of Italian coin dealers and if I get a similar result I'll just leave it in the closet as a nice token... Bright star in the East? Well - yes - IN HOC SIGNO VINCES. Merry Xmas to all of you!
How far do we travel down the road of advising the exercise of`caution'? Having a bodyguard with us as we go to the mail box in case we and our incredibly valuable coin are mugged en route? Well, I guess that would make sense. Advising them to consider using`registered/ insured' as opposed to ordinary airmail / global priority? Well, shouldn't they go with it to Italy themselves.... just to be sure? In any event, if the coin turned out to be `illegal' surely the best advice you could give would be to deal with such an event within the bounds of the applicable laws....? I believe that (in the US) this would entail handing it in, or am I wrong? ;-)
