1856 half

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by hereittis2, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. hereittis2

    hereittis2 Junior Member

    HPIM2873.jpg HPIM2875.JPG


    what would you call these? hope these loaded decently...
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    Most likely they are clash marks from the dies coming together without a planchet between them.
     
  4. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

  5. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    900

    actually, the definition of a cud involves the rim.
    It involves the breaking away of the rim to leave a space where the design is not struck, in the absence of the die (segment).
    If the design is still there then it may be a retained cud.
    But, it must involve the rim.

    Otherwise it is a die chip, clash, or what ever.
     
  6. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Thanks, Frank !

    Dictionary.com defines "cud" as "food brought up into the mouth by a ruminating animal from its first stomach to be chewed again" :foot-mouth: :eek: :rollling:
     
  7. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    The Heritage description on the link above mentions "The present coin is an example of the scarce O-120a variety, easily recognized by the cud in the shield stripes on the reverse."

    Terminology is important, but rather than split hairs on the terms, I just want to offer the idea that the OP 50c might have been struck from a die missing some chunks, and that's what gives the blobby look between the gules. In any event, it appears to be as made by the Mint.

    Folks who have The Book on seated halves can chime in; hopefully, there are some die state notes therein.
     
  8. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Try a definition from numismatic resources. PCGS says;
     
  9. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    I thought the thing about regurgitated food was more entertaining. :D
     
  10. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    The PCGS definition says "if on the edge", which suggests a cud can be on the inside of the design (certainly less common than edge cuds).

    In any event, if it is from a die missing some chunks, it's not an error coin. It's interesting from a Die State perspective (which I personally find more interesting than die varieties).
     
  11. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Entertaining/amusing, yeah, you are probably right. Apropos, now that is a different story.
     
  12. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    The way I read it, the position is not pertinent, but the cause is. The die must be broken as opposed to dented or otherwise damaged. I would think it rather unusual to have a hole broken in the middle of a die, but that would be called a cud regardless. It would be far more common to break a piece off the edge of a die (only 2 sides are attached while the middle has all 4 sides attached). Thus the common "belief" that it must include the edge.
     
  13. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    That makes sense, RLM. Now, we're into the mechanics and engineering of the whole thing, and I think you're right... mechanically, it seems that a cud breakaway is much more likely on the rim.

    Here is an interesting coin with a tiny little interior cud on an interior crack... the cud is like a little dot near the tip of the bust.

    Note that the die crack does not propagate to (or from) the rim.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Technically, I would say you are correct. That is small enough I would call it just a chip.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page