1850 Seated Liberty dollar enroute

I found this one on fleabay....for the princely sum of 150 dollars. I paid via PayPal, so the purchase is covered if it turns out to be counterfeit, but this puppy looks right as rain and came out of an affluent new england town which shall remain nameless for the time being.

I am going to submit it to NGC if the weight is correct, and am wondering if I should have it conserved by NCS first. You experienced guys....do you see anything detrimental to long term storage in a slab?

I reallize it's hard to tell from photos...and especially when they aren't great photos....but I figured I'd solicit some opinions.

The 1850 Philly minted Seated dollar is the 3rd rarest date in the series with just 7500 coins being minted for circulation....and it's estimated that perhaps 200 or so are extant.

Night Owl

 

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while I think it is probably NG, I wonder what we would all be saying if this story came from a dealer and started "you wouldn't believe what walked into my shop today and was offerd to me for $150..."

While it is possible that you successfully stole this coin from its previous owner, I think based upon the doubling of the rims at 6 o'clock on both sides that it is counterfeit and that you will end up returning it. Mid-to-upper 4 figure coins simply don't sell for $150 very often unless there is something wrong.

 

It'll be interesting to see for sure. Can't really tell with those pics.

 

Great buy if it's real and a bummer if it's not. I know from experience. dd:

 

I'm aware of the chinese fakes, and if this one;s a fake, then they sure have gotten good at it. I've had AU Barber coins with remnants of a wire edge, so that doesn't concern me at all. There's an 1850 seated dime on eBay that's got the wire edge all the way around it.

The date and denomination are weak....as they are on authentic seated dollars. I have a good feeling about this one....but we'll see. 150 bucks isn't the end of the world if it's not real....especially since it's insured.

The seller has never sold a coin before....and this one was listed in antiques, simply as a us silver dollar. The story was that it was given to her great grandfather and placed in an envelope, where it stayed ever since. We'll see if that's a load of crap or not. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Nightowl

 

Yes unfortunately the Chinese have become the leaders in making very good look alike fakes. There was just a thread on here a couple of weeks ago about fake gold counterfeits. Prior to that I had a couple different threads on counterfeits. You can do a search and find out alot of info if you want. Also you can see my album and see one of the counterfeits I was stuck with for a long minute, incidentally same denomination as yours. Sent it back and was reimbursed. Of course yours looks 10 times better than mines did. I'm still kicking myself from embarrassment, I had bought and kept a fake for months and never even knew it. good luck

 

Let us know how it works out. It would be great to see better images when you have it 'in hand.' hope you hit a home run!

 

It would be nice to see someone from CoinTalk make out , but the story sounds a little fishy , hope I'm wrong though .
rzage

 

I don't think there's anything especially fishy about the story. The seller is in her 60s. I have made some sweet deals on eBay....but it takes diligence. Just this year, I have acquired:

1) a 1921 High relief Peace Dollar for 12 bucks...buy it now

2) a 1900 Liberty nickel struck on a Nicaragua 5 centavos planchet...open bidding, in a lot of 23 scrub V nickels. I got the lot for the opening bid of 49.95...and sold the other 22 coins for 30 bucks. That coin is pictured below.

3)There was a guy selling an "unsearched" lot of 574 V nickels from one of his parents' estate....asking $350.00. It brought no bids, so right before the auction closed, I asked him to call me, which he did. I negotiated with him and bought the lot for $255.00 ppd. I got them in and about a quarter of the way through the bag....bingo...a 1912-S. I kept that coin and 47 others (and sold 10 to a friend for a buck apiece) and sold the remaining coins for $250.00...end result...a 1912-S V nickel in F-12 for basically nothing....free.

The story wasn't what sold me on this coin. It was the coin itself...it looks right to me. It is coming from what I imagine to be the "right" part of the country for the story to even begin to have a chance of being valid....and iot was a 'buy it now'....listed in the wrong category, by an inexperienced seller. As for "stealing" it....I guess I see it a little differently. I paid the asking price without dickering. I could have placed a 40 dollar bid and took a chance, but in 7 days....more folks would have noticed it and had a chance to research it. When I bought it....it had been listed for a little less than 15 minutes.

Oh yeah.....We also sold Ricky Skaggs his Loar F-5 mandolin....just 4 numbers off the seial number of Bill Monroe's. That instrument turned up in a neighboring town....and in 5 months...we turned a 5 figure profit on it. It's worth 4 times what he paid us for it today, but when we sold it (1996) it reallized a new record price.

So fishy or not....sometimes these things just turn out to be the truth. For those who shy away from eBay....by all means...leave the stuff for me to sort through.

Nightowl

 

I'd like better pictures, but from what I see so far it looks good.

 

I'll post some good pictures when it gets here...tomorrow or friday, but more likely on friday.

Nightowl

 

I find it dispicable to take advantage of an elderly woman regardless of the platitudes used to assuage your concience. It makes it even worse that you were so proud of the act that you decided to brag about it on line to show your superiority over your victim.

 

It's spelled "despicable"......while we're gasbagging about superiority.

If it turns out to be real....she'll get an unexpected surprise via paypal. That has been my plan from the outset....problem is....you just made a judgement of my character...without knowing me in the least. To say the least...I find that despicable.

Nightowl

 

I see no problem with that. He made an ebay gamble....a gamble on highly counterfeited coin with small pictures(and yes, some fakes have gotten really good..die struck with proper metal content etc..). He may have gotten a great deal, and maybe a fake. Ebay can be like a giant casino with raw early dollars. Most of the time you lose, but occasionally may hit the jackpot. Best of luck to you nightowl, and I do hope you go through with your "surprise" if it turns out to be genuine. I'm sure that would make her day.

 

Well.....It arrived this morning. The weight is right, the bottom of the zero in the date is doubled, a result of having had the die recut. This is a known Breen variety. There's no question in my mind that this is a genuine US coin. It has scattered contact marks, but is a very nice AU. The reverse fields are quite reflective, almost prooflike.

I also got a note with the envelope it has been stored in for the last 60 years. If this is a hoax, it sure is an elaborate one.

Back to my original question:

Should I send this to NCS for conservation prior to having it encapsulated by NGC?

Nightowl

 

If it is a fake it the best I ever seen!:kewl:

 

It looks like the real deal, an incredible find. Do you see anything about it that merits conservation? It looks original to me. Most of them have prooflike surfaces. I would just send it in, at worst it gets a genuine holder for a cleaning or something. Still an incredibly desirable seated dollar.

 

The only thing that concerned me was the spot on her head. I showed it to a very well known and respected numismatist and he advised against conservation. It is Breen 5443. Here's a 1200 dpi scan of the date which shows the recut zero, and you can see the file marks in the die below the date.

It's going to NGC next week.

Nightowl

 

I'm curious as to how this coin graded out at NGC... Nightowl?

 

I would get attributed before sending it to be graded.:kewl: