My first post, in another thread, was the about this coin. I now have additional information and thought it might merit it's own thread. I bought this 'problem' coin 42 years ago in Nov. of 1977. It is a 1839 proof dime with a few flaws, but spectacular in appearance (not that you can discern from my images) as the mirror fields are shinny and reflective. I had Breen's brand new Encyclopedia of Proof Coins (1977) where he listed but two known examples. I thought for sure this was B2, the 'impaired' one. In my excitement, I wrote to Kam Ahwash who promptly called me on the phone. This opened for me a new door, as we became friends and I later sought his help and counsel and he provided me with superior findings during the next few years. But, he did not agree with me about the dime. Breen stated B1 "date not recut" and I had told him I saw something under the 9. Sight unseen, he never considered this coin. After he died in 1983, I sold all but the dime, still feeling unvindicated and went about life. I got old and retired. In moving I found the old zippered bag and looked again, after decades, on her dark toning and raised image and did a search to see if anything was new. I found there were now five known examples and that Gerry Fortin had discovered a second set of proof dies had been used! I sent him images and he confirmed it was the F-105 die. In person, he also concluded it was a proof coin. Now, I wanted to again confirm it was the B2 coin and found another new tool, the Newman Portal, and found the original 1956 catalog, with plate, notes on the buyer and the wonderful lineage the coin had. From vest pocket dealer Jim MacAllister (died 1945), to legend TJ Clarke (died 1952), through the hands of Wayte Raymond, JJ Ford and cataloger Breen, it was purchased by Aber Kreisberg, who sold it on in 1958. Heady company. I still yearn to find where MacAllister acquired it from, so the work continues. My image below shows the various documents that prove provenance. Note, the ding on the reverse, notated in the description, and the pock on Liberty's right arm, seen in the plate image, which are the main identification marks. Continuing with the Newman portal, I found the coin was sold by the United States Coin Co., in NYC, as part of the Granberg-Woodin Sale in May 1915: In confirming the "lightly tarnished" referred to my impaired proof, I located the sale of the B1 coin, the Kaufman specimen (condition census), which sold in 1958, with the caveat that the impaired coin was the only coin known to that time. This makes sense, since the owner of both companies, USCC and NN, 50 years apart was Wayte Raymond (d. 1956). Of course, I will continue to seek earlier appearances.
Very interesting. These early Proofs, before there were very many U.S. collectors, are quite exciting. The trouble is when it comes time to sell them, it seems to have been hard to get the major services to authenticate them. I mainly saw them in the old ANACS hodlers when I was a dealer.
My coin came with PNG papers, with photos; ANACS has just launched and offered similar. I'm not sure what proof coins have had difficulty getting authenticated, as the five other known 1839 proof dimes are all slabbed. Possibly, you are referring to Breen claimed proofs that are now discredited. I do not know of a single example, but advanced dealers I showed my coin to at the recent ANA Atlanta, made that claim.
So are you saying your coin is the New Netherlands lot 444? Heritage has listed the known population in a couple of its auctions: https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dim...4-4187.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Is your coin one of those, or is it a new 8th specimen? I assume that you knew it was proof at the time you bought it. How much did you pay for it all the way back then?
My coin is the 6th known, as there are errors on the Ha.com list. My coin is the NN lot 1629, as I show the page above. The NN lot 444 is the Kaufman coin, which is one of the errors on the chart. They did not realize it was the coin they were selling. I also show that page above. It is in perfect condition and is now slabbed as MS66, the condition census specimen. Here is the best information, also from HERITAGE: I verified all the listings and found the Schulman, #3. is not accurate. That lot is an 1875 dime and there are no 1839 proof dimes in that sale. Also, #4, listed as a possible proof, is the Bolander 1952 coin which is now not considered a proof. I paid less than the $1950 asking price in the catalog. Yes, my PNG papers tag it as a proof. rick
Ah, I understand now. I was having trouble following your first post. It might be really interesting to polish this research a bit, and write an article for The Numismatist or some similar magazine. This sort of sleuthing is exactly the sort of thing that I like to read - and if you publish it, you can correct the errors in the record.
Thanks, physics-fan 3.14 (pi man?) - still a work in progress. Much of Heritage's chart is from 2008 when the Kaufman coin was offered, which predates Fortin's discovery of the second set of proof dies (2013) and the opening of the Newman Portal for verification. Now, all those 'ancient' catalogs can be viewed by all.
Pleased to report another link in the provenance chain: Here it is in the October 1865 sale of the estate of Dr. FS Edwards, of NYC, and notated as purchased by Ferdinand Illsley (d. 1890) of Newark, NJ who was president and founding member of the ANS, participating in the Philly chapter. This sale may have been his inaugural collecting, as he bought quite a few lots and became a member the following year, but later, out of necessity, sold his holdings, yet remained active in coin collecting circles.
