1836 us half

I joined the forum hopeing to get some help with a coin I found metal detecting underwater (see pictures)
I posted it many weeks ago under "What's it worth" and not a single sole helped me.
I will give it one last try under this catagory before closing this site out.

This coin was graded by ANACS:
1836 hard times token AU - 50 with Overstrike date of 1828 over 1836 (I believe it to be a small 1836 date, see the 3 between the 2 and the 8 1n 1828)

1) Is it Unique because of the overstrike date ?
2) Is it collectable by both coin and token collectors since it is both?
3) How do I determin the value if it is unique?
4) Should I get an Auction house appraisal like Stacks or Heritage?

Will someone please respond?
Thank You,
Gary G.

 

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I would need close up pictures of it to be able to be of more help. That is a nice find though!!

 

Could you take some close-up photos of the coin out of the 2X2 (so the plastic does not interfere)? A good close-up of the counterstrike would also be nice.

 

Ihave'nt got my 2012 redbook but the 2011 redbook says that it's worth 400.00 but the redbooks are about 2 years behind in true values .if call an auction house call stacks ask q. david bowers good luck

 

Based on the pictures provided, it appears to be an 1828 50c coin that has been
counterstamped, most likely destroying any numismatic value.
I don't believe that US coins can have an early date struck over a later date.
(1836 over 1828 is possible, though not likely, and 1828 over 1836 would be impossible.)
You say that it was graded AU50 by ANACS? Why is it not in its slab?
Better pictures would make it easier to determine its authenticity and value.
Now I'll sit back and wait for some pros to opine.

 

I was hoping you wouldn't ask for another picture.
Here is a story that is hard to believe but is completely true and sad at the same time. I will make it as short as possible.
Found the coin in 10 ft of water Oct 9 2011. Turns out to be a one of a kind Overstrike. I took one picture before sending to ANACS. (the one I posted )
ANACS took the coin to Baltimore (where it was originally from - Houcks Panacea Baltimore) to see a specialist and also to CA and other states to coin shows. Then from ANACS in Co. they sent it back Fedex express. It goes from ANACS in Co. to Memphis Fedex hub to Newark NJ then goes on a Fedex truck in NJ to arrive in Syracuse. (I'm 30 miles from Syracuse) I watch the Fedex tracking # and it shows it departed Newark 11 pm Tuesday night - two tuesdays ago.
My son waits home all day Wed to sign for it but it doesn't show up. The next day I check Fedex tracking and it still shows departed Newark NJ ? ODD?
I call fedex and they tell me I will not be getting my package and need to replace it. What the ?*#*! I started tearing up explaining that I can't replace it, it is Unique. What the heck happened ?
The Fedex tractor trailer left Newark got an hour away, went off the road, Tractor burst into flames and the Tractor melts to Nothing! The nose of the trailer was burnt through the aluminum trailer and about 15 ft inside the trailer body caught fire. My package was in this area. Now I wait for Fedex to paw through the damaged container that they took off the wrecked trailer. I should have an answer next week.
I can only cross my fingers to getting my coin back unharmed. Hopefully the coin survived because it is silver and it takes 1,700 degrees F to melt.
So, my coin survived around 150 years in water , grades AU 50 w/ Overstrike, my find of a life time, travels accross the country and ends up burning in a Fedex trailer! This crap could only happen to me.
I am actually writting a story about it for a well know magazine.
My partner and I just got done visiting the wreck site and damaged trailer and we metal detected the entire area and did not find it. I think it will show up next week in the container of damaged packages.
I have been extreamly upset and now I am trying to figure out what the coin's potential value could be.
Hopefully it will make it back next week.
I greatly appreciate all the help I can get.
Tonight I am going to give myself some Crown Royal Therapy!
GG

 

www.wnep.com/wnep-mon-tannersville-...-interstate-detoured-20111130,0,5416243.story

This is the wreck, Very sad.

 

I don't think it is AU 50. I also think I have seen that counterstamp before.

 

Wow... I need the "Crown Royal" therapy just from reading this. Hope all works out. As far as value of your coin, I haven't a clue. Was it insured?

 

I am sorry to hear of this. If you get the coin back and it has been affected, send it to NCS for conservation.

 

The insurance is a problem.
I insured it registered mail for 3,000
ANACS is self insured and sent it back as $3,000
The problem is that I insured it for that amount based on the fact that it was a Counterstrike and two others have gone at auction for around 1,500 ea.
So, now after ANACS graded it, it became an Overstrike one of a kind date and I would think that the value would sky rocket ? Am I wrong? I would think ANACS would have asked me first if I wanted to increase the value?
ANACS admitted that the overstrike date would increase the value.
ANACS has been great to work with. They seem very professional and they are very polite. When I get this coin back, I am going to send it back to them if the coin itself has been damaged.
If the slab is damaged, and I can still see the coin, then I will leave it as it is for the story .

Yes, The Counterstamp is not Unique. There are around 100 US 50 C known to exist w/ the Houcks counterstamp. It is the Overstrike date that makes it Unique.
jloring -- sorry but I need all the Crown I can get ! Not in a billion years would I have thunk this to happen to Me!

 

I didn't see your original thread Gary or I would have responded because I'm a serious collector of counterstamps like your "Houck's Panacea". I actually have an example of Houck's in my collection. I'm not sure about the value as a coin because most coin collectors consider counterstamps damage which kills the numismatic value of it. However, counterstamp collectors aren't as concerned about the type or condition of the host coin as they are with what's stamped on it. The coin does make somewhat of a difference in value especially if the counterstamp is struck on a large silver coin (such as yours) or more importantly on a gold coin (very rare). Houck's is actually fairly common with probably 150 or more examples documented, about 90% of them on Bust Halves, but it still commands a nice price at auction. I've seen them sell for $400 to $1000 or even a bit more, so if your coin survived the fire you have a nice find there. There are also two varieties of the Houck's stamp, small and large. There's only one example of the large variety known, so it might bring a premium over the small variety from a serious collector. Good luck with getting your coin back Gary and be sure to let us know how you make out.

Bruce

 

Thanks Kasia. This happens to be the first time I was brave enough to send one of my detector find coins to a grading company. I was allways in fear of something going wrong! it don't figure.
Does Conservation lower the value?
Everyone tells me not to clean my finds and I didn't with this one.

 

Thank you Bruce. I will keep all posted.
Bruce, have you ever seen an Overstrike date Houcks?
Would that make the value go up?
Exspecially if it is indeed an 1828 over the 1836 like ANACS claims? and I think it is a small date under the 1828 but I'm not sure. ?
TY

 

NCS "professionally" conserves coins, vs. what everyone calls cleaning coins.
There's a difference and NCS can send to at least NGC to grade if neccessary.

I've never done it, but others have. I don't think it lowers the value if the conservation is professionally done.

 

No, I haven't ever seen or heard of a Houck's on an overstruck coin, but there might be some out there. I think it would definitely increase the value. I've noticed over the years that even some non-counterstamp collectors will bid on counterstamps that are struck on high R-value coins (sometimes much over the value of the actual counterstamp) because it affords them the opportunity of acquiring a certain coin that they wouldn't normally be able to afford.

Bruce

 

Thanks Bruce. Now I'm getting some great info. I thought maybe the same, Overstrike would be desired by standard coin collectors.
I asked on the other catagory "whats it worth' and got no responses but now on this catagory, I can't keep up!
This is good.
I probably won't know untill next week if I will get my coin back.
But I will keep this site posted.
Gary G.
Thanks to all!

 

So sorry to hear of your misfortune with this coin. I hope it can be recovered and, if necessary, conserved. If it needs conservation, I hope that ANACS comes through for the cost.

I ask again, are you sure ANACS stated over strike or did they say re-punched date?
Based on the dates involved, I'd be more inclined to believe re-punched date.

 

They said Overstrike several times. 1828 over 1836.
I will try to scan in a copy of the report, however it list it as an 1836 token. I can't prove the picture I attached is the same coin untill I get it back with the info on the slab.
What is a re-punched?
I'm learning

 

Until sometime in the 20th century, dates were hand punched into the dies before striking coins.
sometimes errors were made or the previous years dies were reused by punching new numbers
over existing old numbers. The same thing happened with mint marks.

I really can't see 1828 over 1836 as a restrike as an 1836 coin could not possibly exist in 1828.
I could understand 1828 over 1836 as a repunch if the 1836 date was originally punched into
the die in error during 1828.

I also cannot understand a TPG listing a US coin as a token.