1834 Large Cent,...Trick...or Treat?

PayPal's got my back....but if this is real, it sure is attractive. Heck...if it's a counterfeit it sure is attractive...except I'll be returning it.

I believe it's an N-4...Large 8 small stars, medium letters?

I'll have it in hand tomorrow....and will be able to post better pics.

Nightowl

 

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To be honest i'm not a fan of that color at all.

 

It looks like it was slabbed, was it?
What grade did they claim?

 

Looks like an air-tite.

And I'm with LD... the first thing I thought was "not original color".

But hey... who knows ? Post up when you get the real deal and we can tell fo sho.

 

If there's no light crack from the rim through the 11th-13th stars, then N4 is about right. I pulled out one of my N4s (not nearly as nice as yours) along with my Howard R. Newcomb book and tried matching it up.

As near as I can tell, it matches up pretty well with one (1) exception...yours seems to have a vestigal (or incomplete) left foot on the CEN(T). I don't see that on any of my N3s or N4s nor do I see it documented in Newcomb.

I'm not sure what all the "gunk" is around the letters in Un(ited States), either...or what's going on with the rim over Sta(tes)...but those are just condition issues...or the way the picture was taken.

As a novice collector (trying to learn by doing), I would have to say it looks like you have a really nice 1834 N4! :thumb:

 

It could be the photo or the plastic it's in. Guess we'll all find out when he gets the real thing.

 

Yes, the color looks wrong, but some of these guys can hardly operate a digital camera. It may arrive tomorrow....or possibly monday.

As for a die crack....an earlier dies state wouldn't necessarily exhibit that anomally...right?

Nightowl

 

The reverse really looks wierd, the denticles look mushy, and possibly a cud near the rim? as well as pitting or rough surfaces. Is this normal for these?

 

I went and looked at a picture of a 20 cent piece I bought from the same guy. It's color representation sucks too....so since a twenty cent piece isn't yellow....I'm betting the color of the jpeg, isn't the color of the coin.

Nightowl

 

That's commonly true, but not always.

1) There are examples of very low mintage coins with die cracks. A classic example : proof 1833 half cents. They made less than 100 (estimated), yet there are several die states with cracks... in the first 100 strikes ! (See Breen half cent book). "Cracks happen" and sometimes very early on.

2) Sometimes, the first strike of a date or variety is from a worn die used for other dates / varieties. Thus, the earliest die state for a given coin can still be an advanced die state.

3) We normally think of clashed dies as being a later die state, but a die clash could happen on the very first strike ! Patterns are notoriously low mintage, yet some show die clashing.

 

The coin looks real, but I'm with others in this thread who question if the color is.

 

Take a look at this picture from the same seller. I'd bet anything that when I get this one....it's not this color either. Add to that the fact that it may not look the same in all monitors....and it's a pretty safe bet that the color is wrong on some...or all of them.

The seller graded this coin G-4....and priced it below G-4 on numismedia, so I bought it. It was listed in seated dimes, and after I bought that coin, I pulled up his other listings, and that's when I saw the large cent and decided to take a look at it....after some deliberation.

Nightowl

 

I expect your not gonna like what you see when you get it... but who knows... we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Stupid question time , I don't collect much copper , but still regardlous of color shouldn't there be some luster on a coin in that condition ?
rzage

 

There is some red in Liberty's headband yet, and in protected areas around the hair, the ear. At least I believe there is.

Here's a different look at it....playing with hue and saturation, as well as brightness and contrast.

Bet this color isn't correct either....but hopefully closer.

Nightowl

 

Yep can't wait to see pictures from you. Looks like nice details and besides the color the only other thing I noticed was the hits on the reverse on the rim. Still I can't wait to see your pictures.

 

I'd like to comment on the pictures (not the coin they represent, obviously)

The color looks off, even on the corrected version, imo. This may just be the original photo's color is unbalanced, or the coin is recolored.

The granular-looking stuff near the rims needs to be examined very carefully. Is it corrosion?
More ominously, some of the better, newer Chinese fakes have raised granularity just inside the rims.

Hope you can post larger, sharper photos once it arrives. Interesting thread.

 

Agreed, in fact I said that the corrected version probably wasn't the right color either....the point in doing it was to show what kind of editing can be done. I don't have it here so I have nothing to compare it to. I don't mean to imply that it looks like that image....but rather that the actual coin could be way off of the color in the original pics.

It will arrive on monday I suppose since it left Sacramento on the 29th and didn't arrive today.

I'll post good pictures when I get it in hand.

Nightowl

 

The Newcomb numbering system isn't chronological which can make things somewhat difficult to track. According to Breen, N3(N3.5) and N4(N4.5) were the last die pairs used for 1834. They used the same Obverse die, but N3(N3.5) used Rev.C and N4(N4.5) used Rev.D.

The Rev.D die was struck from the complete 1835 hub. Prior to the N4 die, the hubs were incomplete and much detail was added to the working die by hand. According to Breen, the N4(N4.5) Rev.D was used after the striking of the N3 proofs, but before the N3 business strikes.

Rev.D is described by Breen as having "serrated" borders...which might be what's going on with the rim at Sta(tes). Btw, I missed this earlier...the Reverse "gunk" I referred to earlier is (according to Newcomb)...

 

That's very interesting...rusted reverse dies would explain that look. The mushy looking dentils on the reverse are just like an example in the heritage archives. That particular coin has a cud above the M in America....in case you go looking....but the dentils look very much the same.

Nightowl