1817 Half Crown - Toning and Grade Discussion

Hi All,

Just picked this up. .925 silver King George III Half Crown, 1st effigy 'bull head'. Attractive and well struck piece with some seriously dark and somewhat iridescent toning.

My question is do you think this toning is natural, or has been induced or artificially created? Ive heard of several tricks to create different types of toning and think one has been employed here on this coin... but I am not sure.

Also, what grade do you think this is? VF or EF?

Thanks!


----------------------------

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

The image isn't quite sharp enough to define an absolute opinion but I have owned George III coins with similar toning. Put them in an old manilla coin pocket for a year and you will see similar toning.
If you look at the leaves in the coronet, unless there is a defined line down the middle of the leaves together with lateral veins in his garland, it isn't EF. Looks like yours is good VF bordering EF to me and an attractive coin.
Take a look at the Harp and other devices on the reverse as, for example, you should be able to see the bust on the Harp in EF.
The main reason for artificial toning is to try and hide cleaning. I have a couple of coins that are graded AU with dark tones but no mention of artificial toning.
This is a coin I have that is graded MS 61 in the UK we would say G/EF. If you look at the leaves you will see what I mean.

 

Thanks for the post here!

Some leaves show some wear and others look a bit more complete hence your appraisal of VF bordering EF. Again the woman on the harp as lost her definition slightly too fitting with your analysis.

I was toying with getting it graded but fear the dreaded 'details' grade applied if it has in fact been cleaned or artificially toned. My gut tells me that at one point this was cleaned/toned but as you say, this isnt an uncommon shade for coins of this era.

Lovely MS61 youve posted. Much lighter with more defined leaves, harp and lions.

 

I have been slabbing shipwreck coins for posterity as I'm conscious that on my passing bits of paper will go missing and the slab is verification of origin. I also go out of my way to buy detailed slabs as cleaned. Why?
Ancient to mid 19th century coins have so many potential differences, no two hammered coins are the same because of human error and coins tone differently because of storage and climate so I buy coins for their looks not some crazy points system to differentiate millions of other coins. I buy on aesthetics and personal taste.
I buy detailed coins because particularly in the UK a raw coin might be beyond my reach. As soon as it has the dreaded details stigma value falls away. Here is a coin in question out of a slab.




A couple of nicks on the cheek but a natural tone and I would say about EF.
Value in this state about $900.
Now pay $50 to slab it.
View attachment 1674881


No mention of artificial toning but the stigma of the details mention has dramatically reduced the value to probably $300.
In contrast this coin is currently on Ebay at around $1600.






Of course this is all subjective and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" but if I was offered both coins raw, I would take mine any day, cleaned or not there are more details and a tone that I find more attractive. I find the $1600 coin "flat".
Moral here for me is buy the coin every time and not the plastic unless you seek totally perfect coins and the best of the best and prove it to others.
Here is another "problem" coin which is a beautiful coin in the hand.



In the hand, unless you really scrutinise the coin with a loupe, you can't easily see the scratches on the reverse which are on the horses flank. The details comment intimates that the coin is a train crash which it isn't.
If we look at hammered coins then the details comments are often quite laughable because the all came out of the ground.
It's a really interesting subject and other than authenticity I wouldn't really get hung up on slab graded with ancient and hammered coins. You should see the obvious anyway.