I have got a very interesting silver 1/- token dated 1811,which I am trying to get identified.Here is a description; Obverse; Prince of Wales feathers with a trophy of arms below.The letters 'I.D' is at bottom left. Reverse; 'WALES & BRISTOL' in 3 lines inside a circle.'MERTHYR' is around the top inside the toothed border.'5TH SEP 1811' is around the bottom inside the toothed border. I have a very strong feeling that this piece comes from Merthyr Tydvil in South Wales,but I do know that there is a 1/- from Bristol that has the same reverse.If you can help,can you please leave a posting here. Aidan.
Noted in Seaby's `British Tokens and Their Values' (1970) as being Somerset (Bristol) 46 (D.42) . Extremely rare. There are silver 1/- token's for Glamorganshire (Merthyr Tydfil) but the only one listed with the Prince of wales obv. has a reverse different to the Somerset (Bristol) token that you have. Similarly, the only one that has a reverse like your one has a different obv.
Ian,the one from Bristol has what looks like a factory.It is this one which is depicted in Dalton & Hamer.I was unable to find my one listed.If my one is a rare one,the late friend of mine who sold it to me would have been blown away.
Aidan, I may have misread Seaby but not that much. The only Bristol token listed in Seaby as having the Plumes is Somersetshire number 41. The only one listed as having the reverse with Merthyr 5th sept. etcetera on it is number 46 (listed as extremely rare) However, on re-reading the listings if I read it correctly this time, D5 should have the Arms of Bristol obverse as opposed to the plumes. BTW in seaby there isn't one listed with a foundry on it for Bristol. The only one listed for Merthyr with the 5th Sept reverse is Glamorganshire number 1 ....but that one *has* a foundry on the obverse..... number 8 has the plumes obverse but the reverse is for Messrs Lewis, Morgan and Williams etc. So no pairing listed there either. In other words as far as Seaby is concerned neither Somersetshire nor Glamorganshire has a token listed with the obverse and reverse pairing that you originally mentioned. The token is either an exceedingly rare hybrid or so exceedingly common that they didn't think it merited being catalogued...or possibly even a contemporary counterfeit (but I doubt that). Sorry, but that's as much as I can glean from Seaby.
Ian,have you checked the listing in Dalton & Hamer? It may have a description,but no picture.If mine is definitely from Merthyr Tydvil,then I shall put it into my Welsh collection.
My copy of D&H has been out on extended loan (now presumed lost in action) for more than two years now. The obverse die is common to both Bristol and Merthyr tokens. The reverse die is common to both Bristol and Merthyr tokens. The die pairing that you have does not seem to be listed for either Bristol or Merthyr. I don't know any more than that.
Steve,this thread will be right up your street,especially if you are originally from the Merthyr Tydvil area. Aidan.
The Glamorgan No.1 in Seaby mentioned by Ian is listed in Boon's Welsh Industrial Tokens and Medals as being a Soho piece and "the issuer is not given, but can hardly be other than William Crawshay". Crawshay and his family dominated Methyr through the Dowlais Ironworks. If your token was made at Soho given the variety of pieces they produced, I assume a deliberate or accidental mismatch of obverse and reverse dies was more than possible. Robert
Robert,the last time I looked at a copy of Dalton & Hamer,there was a picture of a 'MERTHYR' inscribed 1/- token depicting a foundry on the obverse,but not the Prince of Wales feathers & a trophy of arms. Eventually,I will be getting a camera,& will be learning how to post photos. Aidan.
