1806 Bust Half - Counterfeit?

Hello CT.

This is an 1806 Bust Half that I have had for years (ten + at least). Don’t recall where or how I acquired it, but it was originally in a flip with a label that read “underweight – counterfeit ?”.

I haven’t examined it in a while, and I thought give it another look. Of course, it would be great to hear your thoughts & suggestions.

First, here are the stats:

A magnet does not stick to it (but I understand counterfeits were sometimes made from German silver).

Weight: 13.2 grams / 0.465 oz (yep, underweight as per the Red Book)

Diameter: 1.3 inches / 33 mm

The edges do have letters, but I can’t make out what they are. It looks like the lettering is worn or “mashed”.

I took a few photos of the coin – not the best photos but they will give you an idea.

If it is a counterfeit, then would you say it is contemporary or 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century?

Thanks.

 

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No, it's not a counterfeit. It's an O.111a, R4 (1806 over inverted 6)

Your coin is rare because of the additional cud above "UN" on the reverse. I'm not sure the SRS rating of this possible "b" die state, but I believe it's greater than R4.

 

iGrade,
Any possibility of translating this into English (as there may be a noob or two here - since I'm one, there must be one more around here somewhere)?

School me oh sensi!

it is a beautiful coin!!!

Bill

 

The weight I get from the Red book is 13.48 grams so it is quite underweight For a coin with that much detail , my 1806 in VF weighs 13.4 with a lot more wear . I would say it's a modern not contemporary counterfeit . Is there a line around the 3rd side with the writing ? I t sure is a good fake though , hope I'm wrong and it's real which is a possability .

 

What do you think caused the light weight ?

 

That is a beautiful Draped Bust Half , I thought it was a great fake being underweight like it is but should have checked my Overton Book like Brian did , well that's what I get for assuming and why he's the expert . Yours must grade AU at least if there is no unseen damage . Congrats on your refound half .

 

O.111 is the die pair (obverse die and reverse die) that struck the OP's coin

The "a" refers to the stage in life the die was in when the OP's coin was struck

R4 is this die marriage's rank on the Sheldon Rarity Scale. The coin is rated using this 1-8 scale based on the number of surviving examples of coins struck using these dies at this particular stage in life.

 

The difference of 0.2 grams was well within Mint ordinances in this era, and would likely still be acceptable today.

 

It looks real to me and although I am not iGradeMS70, I did stay at a Holiday Inn at the Baltimore show last week. What Brian wrote is that the coin is die marriage O.111a, which means that in the Overton book (the standard reference for die marriages for 1794-1836 half dollars) the obverse and reverse die pair are given the designation O.111 and that this is die state "a". The rarity rating is R4, which is an estimation that there are from 76 to 200 pieces extant with this die marriage. The date of 1806 has the 6 punched on top of an inverted 6 and this can be seen in the image as a loop extending upward on the right side of the 6 in the date. The cud is the attached metal between the rim and UN and ED of UNITED on the reverse. This shows advanced die wear and die breakage/crumbling. The rarity rating of a coin with this die state might be even more scarce than an R4 (R5 or higher).

 

Coin looks right as rain to me and as Brian said it is the 1806 /inverted 6 variety which carries a high premium over the plain vanilla 1806. You need to send that baby in for grading

 

I don't like it and I do think it is a fake of a known variety. It is underweight and .2 grams is not within tolerance. Tolerances on gold and silver was very tight back then and was on the order of +/- .09 grams. So this coin is light by more than twice the legal tolerance. Also the denticals/rim does not look right from 3:00 to 9:00 on both sides. The dies these were made from had denticals cut all the way out to the edge of the dies. There should not be any "rim" out beyond the far edge of the denticals unless the dies are misaligned or it is struck off-center. Neither of these seem to be true in this case. Also when that happens the denticals are very long, these are very short.

I don't think it is contemporary, but I don't think it is recent either.

 

I reserve opinion at this time

 

iGrade and TomB,

Thanks for sharing knowledge about this coin!

You guys are talking about weight tolerances, and in the early 1800's, was that even measured closely? It is not like they could place a newly stamped coin on their electronic scale, etc.

The knowledge inherently displayed by folks on this board truly amazes me... You guys are talking about parts of the Bust Half coin design that have obviously been extensively researched and to me it is fascinating that so much information is out there.

I am NOT saying in any way that this coin is counterfeit (as I truly do not have that level of knowledge - yet!), but is there a higher probability that finding one of these at say a show or shop could be?

I have a few books on Peace Dollars (which I am learning about)... Does anyone have any good reference texts about these coins?

Please keep this discussion going - it is very interesting!

OP, do you have any more information about your acquiring the coin or other history of it?

Thanks, Bill

(OK, I'll admit I want one... :thumb

 

One thing about bust halves... there are so many variations within the same date that it makes identifying genuine pieces difficult for a novice like me. For example, the first sample I looked at on eBay has the date placement totally different from the OP's, the stars are different, and the six is a different font. At my age, I doubt I could ever assimilate enough knowledge to make an informed answer. Here's the eBay example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1806-US-Dra...23?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item51a9b7ada7

 

That is a knobbed 6 variety in the link. You need to look for a pointed 6 and specifically 6 over inverted 6.

I am still thinking on this one. I am leaning towards genuine, but corroded, damaged and cleaned.

 

Well, I did find a similar coin on the 'bay... an earlier stage I assume, as the die crack at the "UN" on the reverse hasn't progressed into the cud as per the OP's coin:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1806-OVER-I...81?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item1e78921919

 

First, I want to thank all of you for your responses. It is great to hear your opinions.

I wish I could shed more light on the coin’s provenance, but I can’t provide anything definitive. I do know that it was not a coin shop or coin show purchase, nor an online purchase (I have documented these purchases). I also have some coins that my grandfather had collected over the years, and I know it is not one from his collection. Family meant everything to my dad, and he would often talk about us kids to his friends & colleagues. I would sometimes get some coins or stamps from these folks because they knew I was a beginning collector. I might have acquired the coin in that way -- especially if the giver thought it was counterfeit.

I don’t go to any local brick & mortar coin shops because there aren’t any nearby that I really feel comfortable with (but I also know establishing that relationship can take time). I also need to join my local coin club and make those connections too.

I have always considered the coin to be a counterfeit and an interesting example of one at that. If it is genuine, then that is terrific. If it is a counterfeit, that is O.K. too – it will be tagged as such and kept as a study piece.

I’ll send it off to PCGS and let you know what the verdict is.

Thanks again.

 

So who's right here?

 

why is the 1806 bust half dollar not listen in the Redbook?

 

It's in mine on page 193. I have the soft notebook style redbook.