1803 Large Cent Mystery

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Marshall, Aug 26, 2021.

  1. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I was looking at some old acquisitions to expand their categorization to Die States. This appears to be a S-263 which I labeled it.

    21826154237222.jpg

    Thu Aug 26 16-25-51.jpg

    The mystery occurs with the reverse.

    21826154041271.jpg
    Below is the latest Die State of S-263 (VII)

    S-263 VII.jpg

    Both share a reverse, but S-263 was struck 1st. The Reverse did not move to a new plane until the S-264s were struck. Below is a Terminal Die State S-264 III with the new surface plane above the crack.

    S-264 III.jpg

    Everybody see the mystery?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    ps This is a little complex with the new plane. The portion of the new surface plane above D sank on the die leaving the surface of the coin elevated while the portion of the die above O elevated leaving a lowered surface and protected area above the O.

    But that's not the mystery.
     
  4. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I think this is where the confusion is coming from. The section of the reverse die containing STAT did sink to a new level creating a retained cud on the late stage S-263. Here is a high grade Stage VII S-263 and you can clearly see that there is a shift in the field level on either side of the crack by the D.
    [​IMG]

    Combine that field height difference with the low grade of you coin and the result is the obliterated STAT.
     
    Marshall likes this.
  5. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Thank You. Mystery solved.

    The plane changed S-263 State VII, but not obvious without proper lighting on High grade specimens or wear highlighting the plane change on low grade specimens.

    Since the only S-264s I could locate of Breen States I or II and Noyes Reverse State F in higher grade and not lit to show the plane change, I incorrectly assumed it occurred after the change of reverses.

    But I do believe it is safe to assume this is a S-263 Die State VII.
     
    HoledandCreative likes this.
  6. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Breen E, not F.
     
  7. John Wright

    John Wright Well-Known Member

    Your 1803 cent is definitely a late-state S-263, as you first surmised. The shape of the visible 3 rules out S-264. All late-state S'263's have the cud under the date -- which your coin is too worn to show. The strikes of S-263 and S-264 show an interrupted and resumed marriage -- 263-264-263-264, as some of *BOTH* varieties both lack and show the final reverse crack down from the T of STATES. See the pix below for this point. 1803 S-263 3 cc-- AU53 PCGS.jpg 1803 S-263 4 cc03 AU50  WCN.jpg 1803 S-264 3 cc01 VF25  WCN  LDSF.jpg 1803 S-264 2 cc02 VF35 PCGS  LDSF.jpg
     
    Spark1951 likes this.
  8. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Neat.
    Reverse Q
    A S-263 no crack
    B S-263 crack S leaf to rim at O
    C S-263 crack extends left to rim right of D
    C S-264
    D S-264 crack base of 2nd T to base of S leaf
    D S-263
    E S-263 crack top of 2nd T to rim. STA sinks
    E S-264
    F S-264 cracks stronger. STA sinking more severe

    Though die sinking may precede State E (State C?) and is only noticeable on worn specimens. Your last photo seems to indicate this with die sinking preceding the crack of D.

    Once again, thanks for your time and patience.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  9. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

  10. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    If Die Varieties are a little nerdy, Die State studies take it to another level.

    I - AM A COIN NERD!
     
    Kentucky, Cliff Reuter and Hookman like this.
  11. Cliff Reuter

    Cliff Reuter Well-Known Member

    (EDIT: Apologies and a little off-topic but ...)

    Sigh!
    I miss Calvin and Hobbes. (I think that's Susy isn't it?)
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  12. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    ...and a really good one!
     
    Cliff Reuter likes this.
  13. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Yes that's Susy, or more likely Susie
     
    Cliff Reuter and Marshall like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page