I recently purchased this 1801 on Ebay and I'm expecting it in any day. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120632540107 It is called a S-214. There is no way it can be Obverse 2, but Obverse 1 is never seen perfect. But looking at the SHWH (Second Highest Wave of Hair - often overlooked in favor of JHF (Junction of Hair and Forehead), HWH (Highest Wave of Hair) and PC (Point of Curl). It is clearly under the upright of the E which cries out Obverse 1. Perhaps the perfect die unknown when Penny Whimsy was written. I don't know if that state has been found since, but I'll finally be getting my Breen Early date Large Cents any day as well. Second, the reverse appears to share the die crack above ES of States (right of a rim ding over T) and perhaps the early clash marks of Reverse B. Also, a thicker fraction bar. Those who share my interest in attribution might wish to comment. It might also be my semi monthly wish-tribution rearing it's exasperating head as well. If this is a 1B, then it probably preceded the S-213 and the NC-1 since it lacks the die breaks and clash marks on those. Perhaps Obverse 1 was quickly retired and then returned to use after Obverses 2 and 3 broke. Of course, the leaf by the stem beside E of ONE appears to extend higher than any of the other reverses and almost touches the berry above it. This may be illusion from wear or significant.
I did a little research and a perfect die S-213 was sold earlier this year on Ebay, so the perfect die (Die State 1) has been observed.
Sorry for the delay, Marshall, I had to go grab Noyes, which was in the other room, and I'm rather lazy today. However, I got up off my rear end and got the book, and like you I have confirmed that the 213 does have a perfect die state. Noyes calls it (not a big surprise) die state A. He also says that "this die is seen perfect, but usually recognized by the four wavy cracks". I did not spend time confirming the 213 attribution on the eBay coin, but did want to share this tidbit with you. Hope this helps, and sorry for the delay....Mike
p.s. have you considered joining the Yahoo EAC newsgroup? I think you'll find better response times there to these tougher EAC-type questions.
Here you go: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earlycopper/ I have found the discussions interesting and the response times to questions fairly quick, and some of the best & brightest copper minds are there.
Don't worry I won't blackball you. According to Breen the perfect die state state was discovered in 1951. The more I look at this coin the more I favor the perfect die S-213. I eliminated all the reverses except A, B, and F (NC-5 different Rev F than in Sheldon) pretty quickly. I eliminate rev F because it has a medium length clear stem to the berry left of CENT. I eliminate Rev B of NC-1 because the berry on the top left berry slopes up and goes into the center of the berry. On this coin it is almost horizontal and goes to the top of the berry which matches Rev A. That would be S-213, 214, or 215. But it doesn't show the reverse cracks that are always present on 214 and 215 and only on the latest state of 213. So by process of elimination it has to be S-213.
Great find, Marshall! And for $20 you're lucky I didn't spot that LOL. Sometimes Ebay pans out. I just bought a nice 1806 that was advertised as an 1803. The pics showed it plainly as an 06, yet only a few people bid on it. Guy
I'm inclined to agree with you and chalk up the potential similarities to the Reverse B chip and clash to coincidental damage. I looked carefully at the location of the berries above the leaves on the inside right and saw a tendency on Reverse A to be closer to the stem and inner leaves where others were closer to a split between the pairs.
Wow - way beyond my knowledge, but I actually think I see one of the wavy cracks. Is it possible the wear is hiding them? Will be interesting to see what you can see when you have it in hand.
It was actuall a little lucky on my part. I knew right away it wasn't the S-214 and bid thinking it would have to be the rarer S-215. Only after I bid did I eliminate the S-215 and begin to wonder what was up. I guess I'll have a twofer with the S-213s since I already have a late state example. I've barely had time to look at the draped busts since I've been attributing the early types. (Chains, Wreaths and Caps) I haven't found many bargains there lately. Everytime I think I've found something, it turns out to be posts of the wrong images. I was getting excited about the Obverse 3 of 1795 and Reverse B of 1796 mule I found. Wrong image turned it into a fantasy coin.
I saw what you saw, but it is damage. The angle is wrong for the typical waves. I received the coin yesterday and was pleasantly surprised it appeared nicer than the pictures. The color is uniform and chocolate and the corrosion I anticipated is not evident in the copper.
