This “variety” was included in my post and article about damaged genuine source coins (from which dies to strike fake examples were made) and also tracks back to mid-2015. My example unfortunately is in a TPG holder as several of these better deceptive struck examples are and was purchased from a California coin shop during the same period of time that the genuine source example was listed on eBay; that source coin has been listed and removed several times over the last year or two due to it matching the attribution marks of the other documented examples, including another raw example sold later in that venue. The posted images are of mine and of the probable source (that image courtesy NGC- coin was returned from a submission package as “Altered Surface, Plugged”). The on-line cert for mine was changed to “Contact Customer Service” after I reported it to the TPG. My Coin Week research article is at https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/s...796-s-85-large-cent-1-page-attribution-guide/ for those interested- Charles’ artwork is always eye grabbing!
Interesting thread. You have me out there trying to learn this stuff. Google is such a cool thing. What type of dies are used to make these? With most of what I read, the host coin is damaged from the process. Maybe electrotype?
Definitely not electros, as I have several raw early copper examples of various "varieties" and there is no appearance of a seam, etc. and they XRF as copper planchets. The host is not apparently damaged in the process as I own the host of the fake 1854 huge O quarters.
Well, electrotype is out. Transfer and spark transfer dies are out as well because that would destroy the host coin. I'm pretty sure you and the services Would have caught these being cast. Maybe these dies are made the way Dan Carr makes them? I'm thinking his computer makes the dies. Maybe Mr. Carr will join in. @dcarr
I didn’t know that transfer or spark transfer dies would destroy the host or does it depend on the metal. I know the original coin for the struck fake California gold coins from the late 50s and early 60s survived undamaged and appeared years later
“Spark erosion” or conventional EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine) uses electrodes (usually graphite) to “burn” the image into the tool steel which are typically consumed in the process. The coin would be used to create the electrode (scanned, etc.) and not damaged in the process.
Interesting thread, here's a 1793 on feebay right now and it verifies on the NGC website today. I'm thinking it's authentic. Way out of my price range but I'm just wondering? Lastly is it safe to say that all plugged US silver coins are fakes? If memory servers me correctly, a few years ago a silver plugged coin sold on the bay for quite a bit of money. ~Cheers! https://www.ebay.com/itm/1793-Large...780314?hash=item58f245c35a:g:leMAAOSwuxFY2~eF
Hi fretboard; the 1793 looks genuine to me- there are many plugged authentic coins in the hobby! The "coins" we have been chasing come from ones that were in most cases well repaired and used to make dies to strike the clones. The repaired source examples are genuine and in many cases resold, the struck copies with repeating marks and the same repairs the fakes. I own the following slabbed 1854 Huge O quarter; it is the repaired source for the second image which is the struck fake.
Absolutely agree; hopefully there is nothing in this post or research that would lead one to that conclusion.
No it isn't, in fact in the early years the U. S. mint the mint itself did the plugging. In at least the first two years of our silver coins the planchets would be adjusted for weight, and if they were underweight a silver plug would be inserted in the center of them to bring them up to legal weight. In fact the $10 million 1794 silver dollar is struck on the mint plugged planchet. And apparently they put a little too much weight into the plug, because after it was plugged they also used a file to bring the weight down the weight. So that coin has both a silver plug and adjustment marks.
Yeah, I remember hearing something about the US Mint plugging coins early on, in fact i think the subject came up here a couple or more years ago. The Mint did a really smooth job on the $10 million silver dollar. $10 million, I only get to dream about that much! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-million-at-u-s-auction-idUSBRE90O06120130125
