1787 Fugio Attribution (Please?)

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Beefer518, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    This arrived yesterday, and after looking at it, I'm pretty sure it's a Newman 1-B, but would like to see if others agree. One question I have about the 1-B is do all 1-B's have the AR correction on the reverse? In other words, is that what makes it a 1-B, along with the no cinqs? Also, why aren't there (or are there) designations for pre-clash and post-clash, like a 1-B and 1-Ba? Mine appears to be pre-clash. It also has a flawed planchet, and is pretty darn worn (this one is the nighttime version, as the sun is gone I guess, LOL).

    If you would also like to give it a grade and a value, that would be awesome.
     

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  3. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    I agree with the 1-B attribution, there are only 4 reverse dies paired with that obv. and the other 3 are easily ruled out. In his book, Bowers doesn't mention anything about the R inside the label.
    I don't know much about grading these, but yours is a Redbook variety (the quatrefoil after date, or "cross,") making it desirable, and despite the cuts and dings the surfaces look original to me. A very cool piece of our numismatic history.
     
  4. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    The attribution of Obverse 1 is pretty easy, due to the quatrefoil or cross after the date. It is only paired with reverses B, CC, L, and Z. CC is a non-starter as there are 3 or 4 known. Z is the raised rim variety which has a noticeably different central ring. That leaves B (UNITED STATES) and L (STATES UNITED). Yours is a B.

    That said, there are several known die states, featuring die clashes. Kind of hard to tell from your pictures, but I'd say yours is maybe a stage two, or even what I call a stage one and a half. Hope this helps!
     
    Fletcher likes this.
  5. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Thanks.

    Jester, I'm not sure I fully understand about the stages of die you refer to. Is that the same as an early die state or late die state? I'm still a novice, but I haven't seen a reference to 'stage numbers'.

    As for the clash, my research seems to indicate that the 1-B had 1 die clash. There are a number of photos that show the clash very well, and by using those as a reference, I have gone over all possible clash areas with an 8x, and see nothing to indicate the clash.
     
  6. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    The 1-B pairing has three (and a half) defined states. Both dies perfect (1a-Ba), a clash only visible on the reverse (1a-Bab), a first clash (1b-Bb), and a second clash (1c-Bc). The second is probably just a weakly struck 1b-Bb, but has fairly sharp details.
     
  7. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for explaining that!

    Anyone wanna take a stab at a grade on mine?
     
  8. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

  9. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    Agreed. Sharpness of VG, but the reverse in particular is beat up much more than market acceptable.
     
  10. Fletcher

    Fletcher Junior Member

    My late stage die state ...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Steelreserve

    Steelreserve New Member

    Was wondering if this is a newman 11x and what possible grading i would get from pcgs if i send this in and the potential value. And if i should have them preserve the coin or if that would increase the value. Thanks
     

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  12. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    That's a really nice Fugio Robert! And I do believe it is the 11-X. As for a grade, I have no idea, but it'll grade way higher then mine! As for conservation, I don't see anything that says to me that the coin would benefit from conservation. It looks like a very nice problem free Fugio.
     
  13. Steelreserve

    Steelreserve New Member

    Thank you.
    Thanks
     
  14. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Fletcher, that's a great looking Fugio!
     
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