If a Dealer can sell a coin for $100 what should he pay?

+1

As long as a dealer isn't fraudulent, he should make make as much as he possibly can. Buying and selling is a mutual, two-way transaction and as long as there is no resorting to force or deception by either side who cares about percentages?

 

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unfortunately this is the new mentality...trying to tell businesses how much they are allowed to make. Last time I checked this is a free market. everyone seems to be so concerned about not letting someone make too much money. I really don't think it is any of my business what the dealer I buy from is making when I purchase a coin as long as previously stated it is not misrepresented. It is up to me to pay what I think something is worth and if I pay too much that is nobody's fault but mine.

 

I really don't think the guys in this forum are trying to dictate to anyone. Certainly, you can attempt to buy items as cheaply as you can. Many do in fact take advantage of ignorant people and buy coins for next to nothing. But most successful businesses seem to build a reputation based on fairness and customer service. With all the electronic communication today, a bad rep spreads like wildfire.

And you certainly can ask any amount you want for an item you want to sell. But a business with no clientele, doesn't exist. No sales equate to zero profit. No inventory equate to the same thing.

As I noted earlier, the dealer who lowballed me on a coin lost every chance at my selling or buying from him. He also lost my son, his friends, my wife, her friends and the people I associate with.

Eventually, his potential client pool can shrink to a point that his business is no longer viable. It seems that people want to go where they are treated fairly.

Too many, start a business without the background necessary to be successful. Many do not even read or understand basic labor laws, etc. As in everything else, lack of knowledge can really hurt you.

IMHO
gary

 

This has nothing to do with how much a business is allowed to make... This has to do with dealers that lie to people that act like outfits such as cash for gold.

 

These people no longer have to unload there items in the local community with the advent of Ebay so now they dont have to care what people think and now just use there shops for buying.

 

Yep ! Brick and Mortar is really taking a hit. I scan an overpriced inventory at a dealer's and go right back to eBay. Some items need to be purchased "in hand" of course, but that's why they have coin shows. Then the buyer has an opportunity to see what the competing sellers have to offer, in coins and prices.

 

your point is taken, and I was probably a bit harsh with my response, I have stopped trading with one coin store in my area for similar reasons. But if the shoe is on the other foot, If I walked into a coinshop and cherrypicked a 37 no leg buffalo out of a junk bin because the dealer thought it was altered am I being dishonest or a 16d dime out of his junk silver. A member of this forum about a year ago found a 1955 dd lincoln cent in a "unsearched bag" of wheats on e-bay http://www.cointalk.com/t81102/ Is he now responsible for contacting the seller and paying him the difference.
You are right, in a perfect world the market should dictate what acceptable sales practices are and probably alot of dealers are getting over on people, but we as collectors and buyers are responsible for ourselves. And I understand that our collections may be passed down and later sold by loved ones to these shady dealers, so It is our duty as well to inform our loved ones as well.

 

Most people that know nothing about coins will ask a question like "How much is this worth" and how the dealer answers that question is how one separates the ethical dealers from the unethical dealers.

 

Im sorry but the OP said what is reasonable for a dealer to make.

 

i am the OP

 

If a Dealer can sell a coin for $100 what should he pay?
What do you think is a reasonable price a dealer should pay for a coin that he can sell for $100. Assuming this is a type of coin he deals in and is pretty cerntan he can sell it in a reasonable amount of time?


Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t129229/#ixzz0zzc749kz
I know. I meant original post.

 

Sure. Perhaps he was wondering what the typical Grey Sheet pricing was for a typical retail of $100 ?

I know we got away from that a bit, but I think mainly because dealers won't pay the sheet price if they think the seller doesn't know how much it is.

When we discussed buyer "ethics" about Cherrypicking a good coin from a Dealer's stock. It should be brought up that a dealer is supposed to be fully aware of his inventory, just like any other retailer. If a dealer offers a discount, just like others have sales, the buyer can benefit. The problem lies in that Dealers with the exception of some who trade in PMs don't post a "buy price". I mean even autos have the Blue Book value as a guide that dealers use. Coins have the guides, but I don't think they are used that much, or certainly not shared with anyone wishing to sell a coin. And that is what I think steers many away from the hobby/investment ?

Just a thought,

gary

 

good points again, but in reality the greysheet is a wholesale price guide for dealer to dealer purchases. I don't think very many dealers would be willing to purchase coins from the public at greysheet , mostly because they need to sell close to greysheet ask to be competetive. Or if they do alot of wholesale business they need to be even closer to bid. I am not condoning unsavory practices , but just because someone offers a low amount for a coin doesn't always make them crooked. Just watch pawn stars and see how pawn owners lowball people. and I can't think of one person who ever got offered blue book value from a car dealer. I'm sure it happens, but I have never heard of it.
the pm buy/sell spread is one of the reasons I stated before why I don't patronize one local dealer, but I think the volatilityof PM's right now makes that difficult they would be having to change the sign every 15min

 

Well, now Bluebook lists the wholesale and retail prices, and in my experience that's about what dealers will allow you for a trade in. A wholesale price is the price that inventory is acquired for and retail is what it sells for. The very fact that dealers wont even pay a wholesale price to purchase a coin from a private party is one of the very things that has hurt the industry so badly. Nobody trusts a coin dealer. And there is no reason they should. Redbook and other publications list ADB (average dealer's buying price) but good luck trying to get it. lol

With eBay and other on-line sites, who needs dealers anyway ?

IMHO
gary

 

GREAT Point, bigjpost.
I have always thought of myself as a steward for the next owner of the coins in my collection, responsible for the preservation of them during their tenure with me. I have prepared a 25 page Microsoft Word document explaining What and Why I collect for my wife and daughters in case of an untimely demise. I would hope they continue to collect (So far my 16 year old daughter shows the most intrest). I also keep an Excel spreadsheet with Inventory and values intact. Finally a bought a great Pocket Book, "What to do with Grand dads Coins.'" Hopefully this can help my wife and daughters make good moves if they decide to sell the collection.
Steve

 

Each morning I search the coins and bank notes at work. Over the last year, I've pulled a couple of hundreds of dollars (face value) of collectible coins and more than a dozen error bank notes. Collector value is almost $8,000 but I paid face for them, less than $400. My boss doesn't object to me searching because he doesn't have any interest in the coins or notes other then them being cash for deposit.

When I go to yard sales or to thrift stores and buy their items, they are priced and I either pay the price or move on. If they have an item priced at $1 and it's worth $50 or $100, it's to my benefit. The seller is happy to sell the item for the price they put on it. Now if I turn around and sell it for $100, I don't feel obligated to go back and give the extra profit to the original seller nor do I feel that because I only paid a dollar for it that I'm going to sell it for $1.50.

 

I have not sold any of the coins I have found in rolls yet and maybe never will. But if I did, I don;t think there is an ethical or moral obligation to share any profit with the bank I purchased the box at. I don't even label where the box came from. I mix the banks as much as I can to try and get a more varied source. I don't know if that works or not, because I haven't found very much. lol But as noted in this thread, some people like those on the Pawn Stars pay just about 1/2 of the resale value for an item. When they need to pay to restore something, of course they pay less. And they buy coins. But the Coin dealers I am aware of here in my area will try and get those coins for about 1/4 of the value. I think largely because their businesses have extremely top heavy overhead ?
You cannot keep a business running for long in that manner. Once the economic trend changes, people will not be quite as desperate for cash, but the reputation of the guys who take the advantage will remain. As well as that of those who cut a straight deal. IMHO

gary

 

Gar,

It is pretty clear that you dislike the idea of a dealer making a profit, but your example of the 32-S quarter was a very poor choice of coins if you wanted to test him. Unless it is mint state then there is no good reason to get it certified (assuming the dealer can authenticate it), plus it is a near certainty that he has a few of them in the back. PCGS and NGC have certified more than 7600 of them and the vast majority of those (more than 6000 of them) are graded AU 50 and up. This particular coin is one that comes in to a dealer's shop every week in a Whitman quarter book and he pops it out and puts it into a 2x2 to sell since the grade is almost irrelevant since there is no spread between grades below MS. If he believes the coin is an XF and his potential buyer calls it VF then even if he lowers his price from XF to VF money it is likely that the amount he lowered the price would be less than the cost of his grading fee to get it into an XF holder.

If you want to distrust all dealers because you din't have what one particular dealer was interested in that is your perogative, but if you buy on ebay you practically guarantee that you will be burned at some point. Whether you like it or not there is no compensation for the advice of someone who spends all day every day looking at and evaluating coins.

 

I think so many factors come into play with a coin, not moderns, but older US coinage that its often a gamble. I have been beat on coins from dealers, but I have also cherry picked rare Vams from the same dealers and I dont turn around and tell them. And as always its what the market will bear.

Steve

 

Perhaps it is my location. There are two dealers here. The second one who has seen the quarter offered to send it in right away for me. He guessed an AU55. I think it would do that at least if I bothered to dip it. He made me an offer that was far in excess of the $35 from the first shop.

So- NO I don't mind someone making a legitimate profit. In businesses I had, I always tried to earn a bit. But this industry is a magnet for grifters, con artists and downright thiefs of nearly every description. What I have a problem with is someone who is supposed to be an expert telling people their things are worth far less than they really are, so he can line his pockets at their expense.

That to me seems dishonest and certainly unethical. That is why I always suggest to anyone who asks to take their coins to California to a couple of honest dealers that I happen to know there and stay away from those here in Las Vegas.

If a profit cannot be made by doing a good service and providing good customer care, then perhaps that person is in the wrong business. And, those who generally are bad at a business, usually fail at it.

Please don't misunderstand that I used a single instance to form my opinion. I know and believe I stated that there are many quality dealers. Often to find them, I think you may need to go to coin expos and shows to get a comparison.

I was able to succeed at what I did by having a good reputation with repeat clientele. I never advertised and always had more work than I felt able to handle comfortably. But that's just me. I probably cannot understand why others cannot do the same thing with the same results ? Maybe times have changed ?

Coin dealers are an unregulated, untested group. Anyone who has an inventory can become a dealer. $35 annual fees even can give you a semblance of legitimacy. LOL

Again, I have no problem with anyone making a profit. It's how it's made that crosses some lines in my opinion. Again, there are some I am willing to deal with. Others, no way !

And it's the complete lack of standardization that causes legitimate dealers to be lumped in with those without scruples.

Gary

As a note, the 2nd dealer I saw more recently, i had a few other items for him to see as I was interested in trading out a few things, possibly. He viewed my coins, told me the current retail prices and made his buy offers. Which, like Pawn Stars, allowed for his profit. He did not try and tell me something was worth much less than it actually was at all. I will probably revisit that shop. But never on the first one.