1882 O Reverse Die Break

I was looking through a stack of Old Morgans I've had for a while and I noticed what appears to be a Die Break through the "N" on the One Dollar at bottom of the reverse. The break clearly appears to run underneath the "N" and has features similar to pictures I've seen on the 1900-O Die Break. I can find nothing on a die break for this date. Anyone heard of such a thing?

 

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yeah, i have seen this before. nice find!

 

Is it worth getting graded?

 

I can't see a mere die break being worth a slabbing unless it's a superb coin.

 

It most closely fits what's called an "82-O VAM 38-A" (http://www.vamworld.com/1882-O+VAM-38A), I missed like 90% of the other items that it described, seems like good web site for Morgans.
Not sure the value, coin in OK shape, not too badly worn.

 

Maybe I am missing something, but what I am seeing is not a die break. It is a planchet flaw. A die break would go through the "N". A planchet flaw could be minted out and would be incused as this one seems to be. If the line is raised, it could be a die scratch.

 

Nope, it's a die crack. Die cracks do not warrant attribution unless there is a fair amount of metal displacement. The one you've shown us is not running under the "N". It is running through the field of the die which is above the incuse letter. I once had an 1899-O that had a die crack that made a complete circle on the perimeter of the reverse. I thought, WOW!, this is really cool. Then I learned that die cracks on Morgans are as common as dirt. You've got to remember that the press is exerting 150 tons of pressure per square inch and something has to give sooner or later.

If you search VAMWorld, you won't find die cracks mentioned in the title of most of the listings. What you need to do is look for other PUP's such as date placement and/or slant, doubling, mintmark style and/or placement. etc.

Chris

 

Even if a die crack could cross the "N" at less than 1/256" thick so it does not show on either of 2 legs of the "N" nor the leaf (I find that on the side of impossible odds), that does not explain why that line is incused on the coin and it is.

 

RLM,

I'd be willing to bet that if he examines it under a loupe or a microscope that the crack is, in fact, raised. I've been collecting Morgans for over 50 years and I've been collecting VAM's for about 17 years. I've seen thousands of these.

Here is an example of one that has a small amount of metal displacement. Note that you don't see the crack across the "8".

Chris

 

OH! But I absolutely see that crack across the middle 8 as well as the 1 and the other 8.

The lighting for the 1882 is from the NW so raised lines should appear bright and then dark on the SE side of the line. Nearly all of that line is the exact opposite being dark on the NW and bright on the SE. With a few minor spots (laminations?), that line is incused.

 

Oops! Wrong photo! I'll see if I can find the other photo. This one (84-CC) is a Later Die State where the crack has deteriorated even more and produced metal displacement. Note in the 82-O that the crack is narrower as you would expect to see in an earlier die state. It has not progressed to the point where it has affected the lettering.

Chris

 

Here it is! This is an earlier die state of the other 84-CC photo.

Chris

 

I suspect the fact that the original coin is worn may have something to do with it, as well. If the crack is raised on the coin, it'll be one of the first things to wear off.

 

For the most part, you are correct. It is very difficult to pick the crack out, but I can see some pieces of it. Even giving you credit for that, in your first pic, the crack is 1/4 (or less) the crack of the OP and it obviously shows on the 8. The crack in your second photo is a magnitude weaker than the op's.

BTW, that is an interesting collection of two coins from the same die.

 

Thanks! I know of another VAMMER who has no less than 12 coins in different stages of die state for the same VAM.

Chris

 

Here is a blow up of the "die break"

 

Who votes that it is a die crack?

Yes - 1

No - Doesn't matter because they're wrong!

 

Notice the lighting on the "O". Bright to the NW and dark to the SE. Notice the "N". Bright to the NW and dark to the SE. Notice any other raised device in the picture. Bright to the NW and dark to the SE. Notice the areas of the crack I have circled. Bright to the SE and dark to the NW. Anything raised (a die crack) should cast a shadow away from the light. Please explain how the "die crack casts its shadow before the crack relative to the light. It cannot happen.

 

At first glance I though it looked incursive, so I was thinking planket, not die crack.

 

I think it's your perspective. The light looks to me like it's on the NW side of the crack, but the crack itself is so small (EDS) that it really doesn't cast any shadow like the letters. I believe what you think is a shadow is merely grime where you have circled the crack in the upper right. If you look at that part of the crack between the top right serif of the "N" and its crossbar and the short segment as it extends past the left leg of the "N", there is a slight shadow to the SE. This is where the crack is at its widest and has a scant amount of metal displacement.

Chris