AT or NT? You be the judge!

Well since I was the closest, I'll just take that cent now!!

 

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:sniper: Well your asking for it


And this thread will end in this: :dead-horse:

 

Thanks Doug.

I knew there'd be mixed feelings about it. Personally, I don't like retoning coins either but there's no stopping it. Like it or not, it's going to happen so I might as well give people the opportunity to do it correctly.

The bottomline is that people in the hobby are going to retone coins. I have developed this product because I really don't like to see people use artificial colorants and products like Dellars on coins. Those are completely unnatural and surface damaging products. At least VT uses natural processes to tone the coin (hydrogen sulfide) and allows collectors to tone at a controlled rate. We really couldn't stop people from cleaning and dipping coins. We certainly aren't going to stop them from retoning them either.

 

Like with everything else it is the application that counts. There are several large cents that are a ugly pinkish color from chemicals. Those coins need to be recolored for better eye appeal. I have no problem with that. The key will be if you can tell the difference - I am talking low grade coins with wear. Interesting experiment. What about toning silver? Or did I miss something in the post.

 

Mark - The product is still in it's early stages of testing. As we all know, silver responds very well to H2S. I will get to testing some silver coins soon and I expect even better results than I got with copper.

 

I can't figure out how to end the poll so here's the final results:

AT - 3
NT - 16 (76%)
Unsure - 2

I'd still like to hear from the folks that picked AT. I'd like to know their reasoning.

 

I forgot to comment on this. No fluid came in contact with this coin. Any spots or "droplets" were present before the testing. Hydrogen sulfide is a gas and that's the only thing that contacts the coin surface. It would not leave spots.

 

I always take the 1st 2-3 Lincoln cent out of the roll ans put them in a old folder and see what happens in a year. some turn nice a some just trash

 

I'm on the fence with this one. If Thad doesn't do it, someone else will or already has - if it can be done, it will be done. If it can be done without harming the coin and it improves the eye appeal, much like the reverse of dipping to remove unsightly toning, why not?

Having recently returned to the hobby, I'm watching with dismay over the AT/NT debate. Clearly there are extreme examples of artificial toning that harm the coin and look like heck/unnatural. But, I believe the "hair splitting" has gone too far when "the experts" scrutinize an unharmed toned coin with great natural eye appeal because they believe it was intentionally left in an environment that would allow natural toning to occur - especially when they can't tell the difference. It looks like the hobby, in the area of toning, as taken a position where they can't see the forest for the trees.

 

BT,

I'm totally in agreement with Doug on this. Products like this have no place in the numismatic community. All it will do is enable the lowlife sellers to cheat more people, and I think you know that.

Chris

 

True, but that's the "free" market and he's going to make one heck of a lot of money. Just like many other areas of the market, improvements are made that devalue previous items. What happens to the value of gold when it can be created in a lab for $50/oz? That's why I've always believed some of the premiums for toned coins were crazy. Based on the number of toned coins out there today, I'd have to speculate undetectable "natural" toning is already occurring, it's just not advertised.

 

From what I have seen in this thread, the purpose of the product is to accelarate the toning process with the intent of hiding problems such as cleanings. Bob Campbell called this Type 1 artificial toning, the OP is calling it retoning. Type 2 AT involves creating eye appealing (ususally rainbow) toning in order to achieve a higher grade and a higher price. The OP has not made the claim that the product can achieve this and judging from the coin posted in this thread, I would say he isn't even close. As and avid collector of toned coins, I am not worried at all.

However, I do agree that a product like this is bad in every way with the exception of the profit gained by the manufacturer. I know people want to retone their problems coins but rather than assist them in that endeavor, I wish we could educate them so that they could avoid purchasing problem coins to begin with. I agree with those who think that the OP should not continue his work on this product for the good of the hobby.

 

Perhaps the almighty dollar is more important than a few suckers down the road. It's no skin off his nose.

Chris

 

I like toned coins, always have. I know I am new to this idea of paying extra for toning since they used to be discounted, but I would never pay for toning. You should pay for the coin based on its level of preservation. A coin can always be toned. Put it on old manila in the window seal and you will get toning. Is it AT? No, since its just sped up toning the natural way it would happen. I always assume that a coin can be toned, so why pay for it? Pay for the coin, the underlying coin and what shape it is in. Paying a ton of money for a original coin I understand, pay just for toning I do not understand, since you can get toning easily if you are patient and want to do it intentionally.

Sorry, just feel like I have woken up in a dream world here sometimes. To the OP, I thought the coin looked like it was worn/cleaned then retoned. The splotchiness to me is indicative of retoning, not original toning of MS surfaces, (though this can happen). I couldn't tell however if it was from a product or happened naturally, maybe because I don't care that much. Is there any way to test to see how it would age? Would the surface toning stop and allow the coin to age naturally? That would be my concern about chemical aging, is that the coin continues to tone quickly or changes color with natural aging. A lot of the old toning products showed well at first, then changed color or damaged the coin years later.

One other thing, to toning aficianados. Remember toned coins used to be discounted since it can be used, quite effectively, to hide damaged surfaces. Just be careful of that when looking at toned coins, they take much more work to ensure the coin is in good shape. Coin repairers, whizzers, and the like regularly retoned coins using manila paper and heat to hide their work.