Need help with Grade on this 1794 Large Cent

I appreciate your kind words, but trust me... I'm relatively low-ranking amongst the dedicated copperheads on this board.

There are some very bright people around here.

 

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Two things can add much to one's appreciation of early copper :

1. Buy the book. "Encyclopedia of Early United States Cents 1793-1814" - Walter Breen. Try Amazon.com and eBay.
2. Join the club. Try www.eacs.org

 

will do that! thanks for the tip

 

The die was concave. The inward "bowl" was in the ONE CENT region. As the die contacted the flan, the die edges touched the flan first and delivered the greatest striking pressure; those details were better struck up. At that moment, in the "bowl" concave area, there was a slight gap 'twixt the die and the flan - an air space.

As the press continued to exert pressure, the "bowl" concave area barely touched the flan at all, and delivered weak striking pressure. Those details were weak at birth.

These sort of insights are critically important when dealing with early American copper; we must know what we're looking at so we know what to expect and what fits our needs.

For the basic type collector, this lack of detail might be a deal-breaker.

For an advanced EAC man, this particular die state (stage of use / breakdown) might be collectible in its own right; in fact, it often brings a premium ! Some guys collect 1794 1c S-41 by die state (Breen lists nine different die states).

Die states are actually more educational than die varieties IMO.

 

the story behind what makes coins look like they do is really interesting isnt it.

 

Yes ! Yes, it is.

We learn very little from perfect coins.

We learn much more from die states and outright mint errors. If you can get a copy of the Dan Holmes auction of Large Cent errors from the Goldbergs, you will find it very eductional.

 

I wrote the following before I read the second page of the thread and saw that 900fine had already explained it.

S-41 die state VI The reverse die has cracked from the rim through the D into the center area of the die. It has also cracked from the rim between AT into the center area and the center of the reverse die is now sinking causing the upper left area of the coin to bulge resulting in strike weakness and excessive wear in that area. For that reason the wreath detail in the lower right quadrant should be used for judging the grade and ignore the upper left.

 

PCGS would Genuine the coin.
I would EAC grade it F details, scudzy, net AG.
I'd value it about $150.
Cool coin.
All IMO.

 

Genuine and almost always Corrosion and or pitting. Possibly a damaged label due to the pitting. This is not a bad 1794 and why I wouldn't allow it to be entombed when this particular market (Early Coppers) doesn't like slabs. The S-41 is scarce (R3), but not rare, so authentication isn't worth it. I love the obverse detail, especially around the eye and cheek, but the uneven wear hurts a bit. I suspect it's a detail F15 net G6 or maybe G8 depending on whether it's mine or yours. Just being honest. EAC grading of AG or G is not inconsistent with the above TPG estimate.

What I would like to see is the best closeup of the edge lettering you can get. It should have Edge of 1794 lettering, but I think there are more than just three types of edge lettering in 1794.

Right now, only two are recognized widely, but at least one additional and possibly several additional variations have been reported, but the studies always end in frustration with the lower grade coins. I'd like to compare it to as many other edges as I can find.

ps I always attribute it myself so this is confirmation of the S-41 and 900fine is right about the reverse center being die break related loss of detail. The uneven wear I am referring to is the weak LIBERTY and fraction.

As far as price? I'd be happy with the price you paid and not terribly unhappy with another $50-$100. Of course, I warp the market as a copperhead.

 

I agree. To wit, I've purchased many, many coins from Shawn over the years, and would recommend him in a second. He also has a wide range of coins from sub-$100 to over-$10,000 -- he has something for virtually anyone interested in old copper. Good guy too....Mike

 

p.s. I would recommnend Noyes' works on these coins as superior to attribute from. They are more expensive than the more common Breen work.