Do fingerprints affect a proofs grade

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by cerdsalicious, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Duke Kavanaugh

    Duke Kavanaugh The Big Coin Hunter

    At how many times does it take for him to be educated? :D
    I'm thinking 14 might make him over educated...
     
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  3. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    why not put acetone down the drain?
     
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    If the assistant has committed previous boners, then why did you entrust the coins to him? It sounds like your assistant "had it in for you". Maybe he felt overworked for what he was being paid? I'm only making this comment for you to consider when interviewing a replacement.

    Chris
     
  5. krispy

    krispy krispy

    While acetone is soluble in water it is still flammable and it can destroy plumping pipes as it may dissolve or eat through some plastic fittings. Some communities may even ban it from being put through the water system and introduced into the environment. You should check your local regulations for disposal. Here is a product safety page from Dow on Acetone.

    MSDS sheet for Acetone
    [PDF file]
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, I agree. But stored correctly is the key here. Do you realize what storage methods were even available in the '30s & '40s ? Coin flips didn't exist. Plastic coin holders didn't exist. Silica gel packs didn't exist. So how exactly were these coins supposed to be stored properly to slow down the toning ?

    What you had in the '30s and '40s were a few coin boards, and fewer coin folders. Both of these were saturated with sulphur laden paper and glues. Then you had paper envelopes - same problem. Then you had cardboard trays with little slots for storing your coins - again same problem. Then there were very few coin cabinets - again same problem. Then you had paper rolls - same problem.

    So how exactly were these collectors supposed to store their coins in order to slow down the toning ?

    They weren't, and that's my point. Proper storage methods did not exist. And that's why you can say that just about any untoned older coin you see has been dipped.
     
  7. mycohopper

    mycohopper Junior Member

    If you're too worried about using acetone, whether it be from its abrasive properties or cost, you can use a 1:1 mixture of distilled water and ammonia as a substitute. If you're familiar with it as a household cleaning product, you'll know that it eats away at grease and oils with ease. However, I would not recommend exposing silver to this solution for more than 2-3 minutes. By using a spray bottle with the mixture, the fingerprints should come off within just a few seconds.
    Easily one of my favorite home-made cleaning concoctions.

    To ensure that 99.9999% of the fingerprint oils are dissolved, you could follow up with GDJMSP's acetone method, posted in this thread.
     
  8. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Because the assistant put their big fat oily fingers all over the surface of the coin. Even the most rank beginners know to handle a coin by the edges.

    If the OP failed to point that out to the assistant, that's a strike against the OP.

    If the assistant was not instructed how to handle a coin, they should have asked. In any event, the assistant cannot be 100% innocent; they screwed up the coins.
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Ammonia has a nasty habit of turning silver coins black.
     
  10. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Since the "boss" already knew the assistant had a tendency to screw things up, the blame must rest on his shoulders alone for the decision to let the assistant handle what appears to be a personal matter unrelated to the business, that is, unless the business is a coin shop.

    Chris
     
  11. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    I suppose that's true by the strictest definition of doctoring, so I won't belabor the point.

    Rather, I'll simply ask this question : with the coins damaged by fresh fingerprints, is it wise to use the acetone process to remove the fingerprints ? YES.

    Is it ethical ? YES.

    Is it an intent to deceive ? NO.

    Is it better, in the name of ethics, to leave the fingerprints on the coins, knowing full well they can be safely removed ? No way. Perish the thought.

    Why is it good to ruin nice coins, removing them from future collectors' hands ? Why is it good to allow their condition to worsen, rather than remove the culprit ?

    In a very real sense, our ethical duty is not just to other collectors - we have an ethical duty to the coins themselves. We are like curators of a museum, and we owe it to future numismatists to care for all coins in the best possible manner.

    Why would anyone knowingly allow the coins to worsen over time, eaten up by acids from The Assistant, when the solution is at one's fingertips ?
     
  12. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    How do you know that ?
     
  13. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    FWIW, we used to dump it down the drain (literally) all the time during college labs. However, that was before the advent of PVC pipes. Acetone is a naturally occurring chemical (you are making it right now in your body) and in small quantities, should hurt nothing. However, dumping a concentrated solvent down PVC pipes is not a good idea.
     
  14. mikenoodle

    mikenoodle The Village Idiot Supporter

    ummm, wasn't the fingertips what caused this problem in the first place? ;)
     
  15. krispy

    krispy krispy

    @ rlm: Cleaning printing plates and screens in print shops, from commercial applications to fine art print operations and university studios, used to be common place. It wasn't just the solvents going down the drain, but all the oil based inks, waxy grounds and resist chemicals, bleaches, varnishes... you name it! Acetone and other de-greasers like denatured alcohol or spirits were liberally applied for clean up and freely allowed to go through minimal filtration then on their way to the sewage system!
     
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Sorry - I left out a very important word there - NOT. I didn't catch it until you quoted me :eek:
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    And that was exactly my concern since most drains are now PVC pipes.

    Besides, your local sewer district would have a cow if they ever found out.
     
  18. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Well, you had better quit using the urinals then. I guarantee you put more down there than you have ever used for cleaning coins. Sewer district would never see it.
     
  19. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Because he said so!

    Chris
     
  20. vipergts2

    vipergts2 Jester in hobby of kings

    I'm coming in late to this party, but I would say dip the coins in acetone quick before the prints get a chance to etch in any more than they already may have. A proof Franklin is a terrible thing to waste.
    Although, the more that get ruined the more mine are worth.......na, fix them while you can.
     
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Dick I worked with sewer districts on a daily basis for 30 years as a developer. Trust me, if they ever caught anynbody dumping acetone down a drain - there was hell to pay !

    Still don't want to believe me - call your local district and ask them. Then call the EPA and see what they tell you.
     
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