The Myth of toned coins.....

The OP obviously need to study and learn a little more about "toned" coins as he is clearly too confident n his statements. He said "It is the original, fresh minted collectable coin that we all desire" but is completely wrong as he is speaking for himself.

Shane and Chris, if you're going to argue about who gets the "damaged" coins, I suggest sending them to me and I will gladly hold them for you guys....LOL

Damaged coins rule!

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Shane and I aren't arguing. As a matter of fact, I'll be a gentleman about it and let him have first crack at them. I'm sure he'll probably miss some VAM's.

Chris

 

I generally agree with you Doug, but I would disagree that coins could not be minted and still be white after 60+ years. Remember that the vaults they placed these in had at least tens of millions of silver dollars plus all other coins. Its very possible, if not probable, that there simply was not enough chemicals in the air to tone all of them. Coins have to be exposed to chemicals in order to tone, they cannot do it in a sterile environment. I would liken it to why you put the moisture absorption in a vault, so it takes the moisture hit. Well some coins would have absorbed all of the chemicals available, leaving the others to remain white.

I would be interesting to see photos of coins taken from the middle of the vault and have the bag opened, or if anyone knows a teller from the early 60's opening bags of these.

P.S. If it helps, I do know a dealer, (I know hearsay), who bought what was supposed to be an original bag of 1960 cents about 8 years ago. He said some were brown, but most were red still. I am likening this to that experience as well.

 

Overall I agree with the OP that toning by definition is damage. I have posted I bought tons of toned coins when they were viewed as inferior and my biggest shock in US coins is coming back and hearing that toned coins now bring a premium, not a discount and people are artificially toning.

Doug is right, though. Even though toning is damage, most non toned coins have at least as much damage because they have been dipped to remove the toning, which by its definition is even worst than toning. So, if you buy a toned coin there is a chance that is they only damage to its surface, but if you buy white you do not know how much damage has occurred. Only dip if the coin has something on it that will continue to damage it.

It just makes one wish people would simply just try to keep your coins in as good as shape as possible why they are in your care, not worrying about fads since you never know what will be popular 50 years from now. Conserve them for the next owners after you. End of preaching to the choir.

 

I sometimes run into dealers with the remains of old rolls of quarters when they were traded like commodities. The coins are relatively (you can't see it w/o mag) free from toning. I really doubt that these were doctored but am open to learning why I shouldn't.

 

ditto.

 

I'm a newB. Over the weekend I visited my local Barnes and Noble bookstore and sat down to look through a Coin magazine. The fellow sitting next to me asked me if I collect coins? We began chatting and he told me he just picked up several Silver dollars at the local coin dealer. He showed me two 1880 Morgans that had no toning whatsoever, and he was handling the coins without gloves. He gave me the coins to inspect, and I was hesitant to hold his coins without gloves, but the fellow didn't mind. I questioned how could these 130 YO silver dollars not have any toning, and the fellow replied that they were uncirculated coins. Duh!

Is it possible to have a 1880 Morgan without any toning? How?

 

I have no idea where you were raised, but there were definitely rolls readily available in the 1950's in western PA. - both tubes and wrappers. I never liked the wrappers because they nearly always came only with new cents in them. Anyone want to guess how many rolls of 1953-P, 1954-P, and 1955-P I turned back to the bank? Now guess just how much I would pay for just one of them to be an MS-67. I used to attend coin club meetings where dealers would set up and sell coins including roll that I am pretty sure went back into the 40's. Now that I live in OK, our neighbors sons each inherited an original roll of cents from the 1930's. I am reasonable sure those can be traced back as original. Anyway, I can 100% assure you that wrappers and tubes existed in the 50's; I am pretty sure something was around in the 40's; and I believe that something existed prior to that.

 

I would agree that these coins are most likely dipped, and the collector is damaging them by handling them with his hands that contain oils. I do not say that many, many "original rolls" are not dipped white. I was just postulating some of them are probably original.

Your "friend" will be shocked when his uncirculated coins quickly become AU and toned, (retoned), with the way he is treating them.

 

Doug is referring to silver dollars in paper rolls, not Lincoln cents or any other denomination.

Chris

 

Yes - but the coin was probably dipped. Now I am assuming you can tell the difference between a polished or cleaned coin and a blast white coin with some mint luster still remaining. Now properly dipped coins are market acceptable and will be graded by a major tpg. You can follow this whole thread to get ideas of what some think. Me - I do not like blast white coins, I like a little color to them. But I also do not like rainbow or black toned coins - nothing against them, just not my collecting cup of tea. I like bust silver to be steel type grey - no black toning or blast white coins. Now for my IHC's I like red brown and then brown - those colors are a type of toning.. This is a very interesting topic and it eventually boils down to what each collector likes.

 

I was also searching silver dollars. I will grant you that there were not any mint wrapped rolls (in my area anyway), but there were lots of tubes.

 

i don't think these were ever cherry picked,cuz when PCGS came along i had some graded MS64 a few of them came back MS65 and 3 them came back MS66. :yes:

 

the edges of these coins had a "greyish color tone" and only the end coins were toned. wish i had pics to show you.

 

exactly!! i don't understand why some collectors believe the millions of silver dollars that were stored in the vaults must be toned and that all the white coins must have been dipped at one time or another.

 

However, medoraman is talking about coins from the 60's. You're talking about coins 130 years old...

 

lets turn the clock back to the 1920's...

say i walk into the bank and ask to exchange my paper money for 40 silver dollars, does the teller then say "no, we only do exchanges on $1000 " you must take the whole bag!! b/c we don't have silver dollar size paper wrappers,now does that make any sense to you guys?

 

someones full time job dipping morgans! lol

 

If you have Van Allen & Mallis encyclopedia of Morganand Peace Dollars, they have a chapter on the GSA processing and sale of the Huge group of CC Silver Dollars in the 70s. They show one photo of a sorter with white gloves stacking silver dollars. The stack looks about 50% dark tone, and the rest a "gray" appearing tone, and the gloves are gray themselves. They sorted the "tarnished" , scratched, and reject errors( off center etc.) from the nice appearing "normal" ones. To give an example, for 1882-cc, they had 382,913 BU and 216,116 tarnished,scratched ( which were sold at a reduced price